The Foreman – BBC Top Gear Australia

Not on your life. I want at least three stars.

Never i have no intention of getting myself killed because it was easier to cheap out car’s in australia have a standard to pass and if they don’t pass they shouldn’t be allowed on the road.

i dont care what the rating is,ill drive anything,but i will put a helmet on if it feels unsafe,if its important on the race track it has to be 100 times more on the roads,helmets should be made compolsary for roads.

and sometimes i wear a US army flack jacket

You only get what you pay for!!

I agree with speedy – if they dont stack up,there not allowed on the road.

for my 2c I think it rediculos that we are allowing such rubbish to be sold here!
like we need more light commercials and crap little cars on the rd!

i wouldnt give an ADR certificate to not one car in australia,unless it came from a race team workshop.

Great Wall are new for Australia and bringing in cars that have one of the most ridiculous crash ratings on the roads today doesn’t really give them a great reputation. But both Proton and Great wall are really cheap so i’m not really surprised. But the jumbuck should at least have an airbag for crying out loud!

Not really fussed about crash test ratings to be honest. I don’t care if it is a 5 star car, you get hit by a semi, your dead. If your times up your times up.
It’s all well and good to want to ban old cars or cars that don’t rate highly in safety but think how that would effect people who can’t afford more than a few grand on a car. Without a car alot of those people can’t get to work. Unemployment goes up & the economy suffers. Meanwhile people will be claiming that banning low rating vehicles was a success not realising the lower road toll is due to less people being able to afford so called safe cars & therefore not driving.
It’s a load of BS.

If they were serious about safety in cars roll cages would be mandatory as would a 5 point harness & helmets. Until that’s law these safety rating are a effing joke.

What about the Nissan Navara? When EuroNCAP tested it at the beginning of the year, they rated it half a star!
A change to the airbag timing brought this up to 3 stars (I think) but that’s still woeful for such a large vehicle from such a major manufacturer.

Utes are not cars. People who use them to ferry kids around often do so thinking they are bigger and safer than cars, little realising that the opposite is true.

@G.O.M. — what are you going on about? They’re not talking about banning old cars — the article only mentions new cars, including the brand new Great Wall utes.
Sometimes cars do hit things other than semis. Your first point was ridiculous. Take a look on youtube of the video of a Laguna being driven into a tree by 5th Gear to see what improved safety can achieve.

And your understanding of the market is appalling. All cars are new once, and so long as only safe cars are made available new then second hand car buyers will only have safer cars to choose from.
My 2001 Clio cost under $10k and has an NCAP 4 star rating. The 2009 Hyundai Getz also has a 4 star rating and I doubt anyone will be complaining that they’re too expensive once they hit 7 years old.

If you would prefer to drive around in an unsafe old car, then that’s your lookout but I for one am glad that manufacturers are strongly persuaded to make their new cars as safe as possible.

Cris,i wouldnt put any faith in the 4 star rating for the clio,or similar cars,i bet if the crash test was 1 cm to the left or right it might be 0 star,but stars do sell cars even if its all luck.

The Proton Jumbuck is the worst car in the world.

It is a plastic crap box that should never been able to have been released in the first place.

Chris – Think it through properly mate. I have simply taken the next logical step in this issue. For about 5yrs now there has been a push to ban any vehicle more than 20yrs old & it is gathering more support because of the horror road toll & environmental concerns, (don’t start Earthy). Then when you think of the consequences of baning old cars that usually cost under or around 2grand & the impact it would have on the economy, you suddenly discover that I’m not that far wrong & what I say about old cars being banned is not that far fetched.
Your Clio & Getz might be suitable for you, they don’t suit everyone though. Not everyone has 2.3 kids. I’ve got four boys & one of them is disabled. Where do you propose I put the wheelchair & the girlfriend? On the bonnet? So cheap small cars are completely useless to me. Not everyone has a credit rating, (such as myself), & not everyone has even 4thou or more to spend on a car.
Your point about new cars being made safe is stupid. Sorry to put it like that but it is. The VN commodoore was billed as one of the safest cars on the aussie roads when it first came out. What’s it rate now? Probably no stars. As long as technology keeps evolving what is a great new safety feature today, will be a dangerous heap in 20 years.
As for my first point, it’s more about my philosophy towards life. I have seen minor accidents end up in fatalities in these supposedly safe cars & I have seen people walk away from accidents that should have killed them in cars that just don’t rate when it comes to safety. It’s just a matter of luck. I’d rather end up dead because I was in a low rated car than be a quadraplegic because I was in a higher rated car.
If they were serious about safety, then like I said there would be roll cages in every car on the road.
QUOTE “thinking they are bigger & safer than cars, little realising that the opposite is true”. I tell you what, you take your clio & drive it head on into a Navara. I bet you anything you like that you come off second best. Rated poorly because of airbags you think. Your airbag is not going to help you if a 4×4 hits you. It’s chasis is up at your window hieght. When it hits you it is going to come straight through your windscreen bullbar aimed straight at your head. Your chances of survival are minimal to say the least. Smaller is safer my arse. Hell I’ll head on you in a 40yr old valiant & I garantee you will still come off second best.
You can take the thinking a step further as well. People think they have a safe car & they get reckless about thier driving. “I’m in a safe car, I’ll be right mate”. Then they get careless because they are not worried about safety as much. Over confidence results & people end up dead. Decent driver traing would save more lives than even mandatory roll cages.
Putting a decent roll cage in a car only cost about a grand once you have the engineering side of things taken care of. So why are they not mandatory? Hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on airbags & crumple zones when the most effective thing would cost bugger all.

I think you need to do some study & thinking on the subjuct before you try & make statements so bold as smaller is safer.
Good to see you putting your opinion up here though. Don’t get put off by me. I’m an opinionated prick, just ask any of the other regulars on here.

Sorry about the long post everyone. I didn’t realise I was typing for so long. I guess I owe one long post to you Earthy.

The reason roll cages are not fitted could partially be because solidity does not help. Becoming stationary suddenly is what causes damage to your body, thats what throws you around the car. More damage is caused by people hitting things in the car, not things in the car hitting them. That’s why seatbelts reduce fatalities so much. Crumple zones reduce the speed of the impact, therefore making the car safer for passengers, because there is far less strain on your body.

Consider if you were running at a wall. What would you rather have on impact, a big cushion, or a steel gurder?

And as for hitting a truck, yes you would be killed regardless of your car, but why doesn’t that mean cars can be made safer for lower speed impacts? It’s not all or nothing.

I don’t understand how the “Great Wall” ( are they taking the piss with that name?), scored an extra star than the Proton. At least the Proton has an airbag, not that will save your legs (at least you’ll still look nice)!!!
It’s like the old saying “you get what you pay for”.
One important question that I believe needs to put to the state & federal governments, is how on earth are these bucket loads of crap allowed to be sold to the unsuspecting public without the proper safety checks being carried out?

After reading Austinmartins’ comments, I’m reminded that the European test of the Great Wall luxury sedan achieved the worst result in ENCAPs history. I guess some manufacturers in China don’t care how unsafe their product is, as long as they make money out of it. It’s just those the companies that were using lea paint in childrens toys. Good one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

G.O.M its your type of thinking that is the reason for the proliferation of large 4×4 on our roads. Anyone who drives these cars without spending 20% of the time off road is seriously selfish. They wish to put themselves & their family of other families and the environment. G.O.M you are correct in saying that smaller cars will come off second best to a 4×4 but how is that justification to buy one? is that a case of if you cant beat them join them? The sad thing is the federal government gives tax breaks to 4×4s therefore allowing imbesiles such as G.O.M the ability to revel in their selfishness.

Oh and by the way G.O.M, regarding a head on in a valiant vs clio.. You would be safer in a clio any day of the week. good luck sewing your head back on after the steering wheel takes it clean off..

ahead* of other families

G.O.M how bout we all start buying prime movers to ferry our kids around in.. lets see how your 4×4 or valiant stands up then! great idea isn’t it! you doofus!

Roll cages would reduce serious injuries & fatalities. No doubt about it. Crumple zones are great but they keep folding up until you have been injured. Cars should be built the same way as race cars. Crumple zones to lessen the impact & roll cages to protect those inside the car.
That sort of design has saved more lives in racing than I care to contemplate.

G.O.M. ur a fool. If u put no crumple zones in cars the forces on the body would be HUGE!!! Do the Physics F=ma(a-acceleration, m-mass)! Crumple zones extend the amount of time the crash goes for and by doing that, the acelleration is slower. By slowing the acceleration u times mass by lower number therfore u get less force.
Also, cars are usually only designed to crumple (from the front) to the fire wall, not into the cabin and also, have u ever seen a race car crash??? If u had, u would have noticed the fact that they also have crumple zones by the fact that ususually all thats left whole is the cabin of the vehicle.
Oh almost forgot. If u put a roll cage in, to deal with the extra forces u would have to put a harness in and do u know how hard it is to drive on the street in a 5 point racing harness? Its damn hard cause its almost impossible to look at ur blind spots.

Sorry harry for pritty much saying what u said again….

i wouldnt pass a car for ADR if it didnt have a HD camera to show any blind spots,if any,and cage of some sort for roll over and side impact protection,with proper seats with side of head protection.but wearing a helmet would reduce serious injuries by 99%for sure,but absolutely nobody wants that.so why bother.

and if i was to run in to a brick wall in a volvo full of air bags or a rally car or V8 race car,id be in the ones with a cage and harness every time,wearing a helmet.

nos – My family does come before the evironment and others. There would be something very wrong if they didn’t. I’ll take myself out to save others but I’m not taking my kids with me. You abviously are not a parent. I don’t own a 4×4. You have displayed your inability to see past your own little world. People also use 4×4’s for towing large boats & caravans. Many of which cannot legally be towed by anything other than a 4×4 or semi. Do you propose that they be made illegal to? I’m guessing you have never driven a valiant or know a whole lot about just how solid they are. I’m also guessing you forgot to wear your seatbelt if the steering wheel is taking your head clean off. You might bang your head against the wheel in a vali but you have nothing at the front of a clio to save you from the two tonnes of valiant you just colided with. As for buying prime movers, I already own a Kenworth for towing my boat so I have no problem with it thank you very much. Your an idiot with limited knowledge & who can’t see past the end of your own bonnet. Go away dhead.

Rolla – Congratulations on showing your not able to read. See post 21 if you want to know why I say that. When did I say that crumple zones or airbags should be removed from cars? I didn’t. My point is that there is something else that can be added for a minimal cost that will dramatically increase vehicle safety. So why isn’t it mandatory. As for have I seen a race crash. I used to race competitively, so umm, yeah, I’ve seen one or two you might say. As for your five point harness will stop you seeing your blind spots, that’s crap. The HANS device is what stops you being able to turn your head to see blind spots. I guess you have never had a car that requires a cage & harness by law otherwise you would know this instead of parroting Niel Crompton’s commentary. I on the other hand have had 3 vehicles that required roll cages & harnesses on the road & I had to go to great expense to get it sorted out legally. I’m currently building my fourth with a cage & harnesses & it’s getting harder all the time to have it leagal. They don’t like side intrusion bars because it makes access hard after an accident. There’s also the minor fact that we are talking about introducing new legislation seeing as roll cages are looked upon pretty dimly by the establishment, so there is no reason the legislation can’t be written so that normal seat belts can be fitted to an otherwise unmodified vehicle with a roll cage fitted. Your extra forces are negated by your own argument that crumple zones are designed to end at the firewall. Meaning the passenger compartment is pretty much rigid anyway. Just like with a roll cage fitted. So your point is what exactly? Roll cages are also to help reduce the seriousness of roll overs & impacts that are not at the front end. Like if a truck hits you.

Anyone who thinks an airbag & crumple zones alone is better than those things combined with a harness & cage is an effing moron.

Spandau – move over & let me in. I want the roll cage & harness to. We will leave these idiots to get themselves killed.

Again – apologies about the long post. Someone has to tell these idiots the facts though.

If you guys want to keep argueing I’m quite happy to do that. Ask any of the regulars, they will tell you that I love a good fight & I rarely lose.
Rolla – it’s decelaration. Acceleration is when your speeding up, not slowing down. How can anyone take you seriously when you don’t even know that? Or how to spell it?
I will try to keep it shorter now before you all start calling me Earth Lover.

yea where ta hell is earthy ,this is right up his alley.

come on, u gotta comprimise. As if u could actualy live with a car that, every day, u had to climb in through a roll cage and strap urself into a racing harness then put an a full face helmet before even starting on ur daily commute.
G.O.M., i wasnt saying those things were bad but, for the unlikly case u crash at that sorta speed, crumple zones and airbags are ok, not fantastic by themselves but a good comprimise.

oh sorry forgot to say. if u have a roll cage, u should be harnesed as (seen this in a photo) u will rattle around in the car which is now so much more rigid and quit posibly become traped between ur roll cage and the car body.
Seeing as u are mr high n mighty G.O.M., racing driver, blah, blah, own a truck, 3 cars and a boat, blah, blah, that the seats those harneses are through usually have masive backs and wrap around headrests…restricting vision der.
Oh also that stuff is expensive. As an 18 year old how would i ever afford to fit that to my car which mind u, has probably a much worse ancap rating then those utes being a 1991 toyota corolla….

Spandau – Holdenchick34 has dissapeared to. Hmmm…

Rolla – Compromise is fine. Roll cage design can easily be modified so that getting in & out is no harder than a normal car. It’s just a matter of designing the side intrusion bars properly. Even if the front of the car was to remain with no side intrusion at all you could still have a half cage in the back & the front half of the cage designed for front on impacts & roll overs. The strength offered by both halves would also increase side impact protection as well. The rear cage should definitley be mandatory. After all that’s where kids usually are & they are the ones we all want to protect. As for the helmet, I don’t think I could support that as it would limit your field of vision. Unless like Seton you go for the open face. Crashes at high speed are actually fairly common. Two cars going opposite directions have a head on. Each car is travelling at 70kmh. That’s 140kmh impact. Doesn’t really take much speed at all when it’s head on to make it a super serious crash.

I just think that there’s room for more of the safety features from racing cars to be applied to the everyday car. I’ve never heard a sound arguement against it yet. If it’s well thought out, (something most manufacturers have trouble with), it would only be a good thing.

Earthy – Where the hell are you man? Your Alpha has a cage in it doesn’t it? You should be right into this.

I’m going to stop talking about this now. It’s too easy for me to go into too much detail.

Rolla – Take your mind out of a V8SC & think passenger vehicle with these things as standard. Seats, cages & belts can all be redesigned to be family friendly. You have to think outside the square sunshine.
Instead of just thinking of what you see in race cars.
You can keep the name calling to yourself to mate before youe PI$$ me off & I let fly back at you. Trust me I have done it on here before & you will not like me if I get nasty.

If you can only think of what is available in race cars your not going to understand most of what I’m talking about. der….

Spandau – Don’t know if your still checking the E2 blog so I will put this here for you. http://www.historicwinton .org/Utes3.htm
The Austin Seven apparently was the world’s first ute & there were several before that that were soft tops. Austin did the “Ruby Utes in the mid to late 30’s. Ford were the first to do the hardtop ute in any kind of numbers though, so they claim they built the world’s first hardtop ute in 1938. Shame they were beaten to the punch by Austin. It’s just that they were the first to mass produce the ute that people believe they were the first to build a ute at all.

Yes
gom is an opini-opyneo-opinge – hes a prick!

There is some truth in the false emphasis on safety. If safety was the key issue then most cars would have harness for seat belts, tank armour for passenger cell and clio’s front end.

It appears we want convenient safety, not safety. Like airbags, they don’t seem to exist until you crash. Crumple zones, u don’t see them until you crash. Other safety features like roll cages and harness annoy us in everyday living so we rather die than have them.

A power quote on Einstein suits nicely, “I only know two things that are infinite. The universe and human ignorance. And I’m not sure of the former.”

Don’t slug it out guys, we’re all wrong and stupid.

P.S I like G.O.M’s arguement though, coz it’s the only way i might be allowed to drive a A1M2 on the road. Aha! Try ur valiants, clios, semis and prime movers against that! Oh wait this is a car site and not a tank site

Nos
Exactly how do you work out 20% or less and no 4×4 – what a load of crap!-really crap!

Its twits like you that spread stupid unfounded rumors and stories about 4×4s and thier owners.
Did one beep at you or something?

As for keeping the family safe on the rd these days
You cant have any kids-
Surley if you did you would have them in the safest family car you could afford!
wouldnt you???

Black Dog – That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. I don’t think there is a lot of point trying to get nos & rolla to understand that they are clueless. Both of them misunderstood what I was talking about & rolla has proven that he can’t even read. Oh, & rolla is only 18 so he/she doesn’t have much of an idea of what is going on yet. Just another kid that thinks he/she is a race driver extodinaire now that they don’t have L’s on the car. At least this one seems to have bought thier own car (91 coralla), not like most of the muppets that age that mummy & daddy bought some overpowered new thing for them to go right off.
Your right that nos must not have kids or they would realise that the priority in any parents life is thier kids & they will do everything in thier power to protect them. If doing that is selfish, fantastic. That means I’m not just a prick, I’m a selfish prick.

On holiday having a nice break thanks. Still reading and ruminating though. Will post something next week as I deal with the effects of this rubbish everyday.

Ohh, come on Earthy, give us something. What did you have to do to get the Alpha legal with a cage, (assuming it’s legal). We need someone else to put these pricks in thier place & who better to do it than a surgeon that has to deal with road injuries & fatalities everyday? Especially one with an Alpha that has a cage in it.

These two cars are aweful, I’m never buying Japanese or Korean cars ever. Jap cars might be good, but they lack history.Anyone that says they can’t afford a safe car should just look on the net, Various old Mercedes’ Audi’s etc.. Its always about the money yet these people afford to get internets to tell us of how difficult it is to buy a car?

nos take your hand off your little finger you idiot!speak when your spoken to.lost a very close mate because some f**kwit 18year old driver was dragging another f**k wit 18year old
driver on freeway.i’m still coming to terms with the news and i’m in no god damn mood to be reading posts from some dumb,usless,little c**t,
who thinks they know all there is to know bout driving.so sorry top gear for using such strong words you know i dont normaly swear and sorry to everyone else.if you pull the post top gear i understand.

my opinion is for a car to be safe to drive it needs in my books:TO BE TREATED LIKE A CAR AND NOT LIKE A RACING CAR.if you look after something it will last a long time.treat it like shit and it will run like a busted ass.

Holden chick
No apolagies needed!!!
i lost my best mate and his uncle to a f*&^%/hoon 4 days after he got married and found out he was going to be a dad.

Its a touchy subject but these stories have to be told from time to time to keep it real.

Just look up the TAC’s ad’s on ‘You tube’, having too much fun in the Vic Alps to write much this week. But cages and harnesses plus LESS driving are the way to go.

Black Dog is right Holdenchick. There’s no need to apologise. You have every right to be upset. Let fly at all of us if helps mate. Hope the little mongrels get locked up. I hope they get the $h!t kicked out of them by thier parents to.

I reckon idiots like that should be used as live test crash dummies. Then they can find out what the reality of thier selfish stupidity is.

TGA – Leave Holdenchick’s posts up there. As Black Dog said, these things need to be told so that stupid, arrogant little punks get the message that there are consequences to thier actions.

Got to agree with you about the maintainance part & how a car is driven to HC34. If people drive like they are in race cars then thier accidents will be horrific.
As an brake & suspension tech I can tell you that 80% of people have no idea at all how to maintain thier cars. 15% just plain don’t care & shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a car. The other 5% usually know what they are doing & either do thier own work or know damn well that if something isn’t right it needs to be fixed.
The ones that don’t care are the worst. When I used to work for what used to be Tom’s Tyres, I serviced a 6wd Landcruiser that was used for tourist jaunts in the north of WA. When I pulled the front wheels off I discovered that both disc rotors were completely shattered. Not worn. Shattered into a jagged mess. When I showed the owner he just shrugged & said “Yeah, so”? That stupid moron actually wanted to leave the discs as they were. He saw no problem what so ever with the fact that he had no front brakes at all. I felt like hitting him over the head with a tyre lever. Instead the manager called the cops & the moment his wheels touched the road he was pulled over. The cop knew exactly where to look & put a red sticker on it straight away. He had to get it towed the 50ft back into the workshop ‘coz the cops wouldn’t let him move it at all.
Driver education & training would have to be the one thing that could make the biggest difference to the number of serious accidents. Shame our government is too pussy to make some decent laws about it.

As an ex brake & suspension tech. Sorry.

After whating those clips all i have to say is if you still want to buy rubbish your mad as my brother always saids you can polish a turd but the end of the day it’s still a turd.

there is no way anyone could survive that jumbuck crash that would be instant death for sure.

you guys understand 18yr olds dont.not goin to take fury out on you guys just usless little pricks who think they can drive.thanks for your support it means alot to me.lost a rello years ago now lost a mate.

Jeez. They say cars need crumple zones but that’s ridiculous! And Jumbucks were the ute of choise to replace ageing Brumbys….. I agree with Speed Demon- make a standard and if you dont pass- you dont sell it!

and Earth lover- wake up to your self……

Half of you are being blinded by your emotions and stubbornness. If they introduced a min. star safety requirement, the manufacturers would make their cars compliant. It’s exactly like they’re doing now for the 2010 emission regulations. The result is that new cars get better and safer and more fuel efficient etc.

The manufacturers simply find ways of increasing safety without compromising the other aspects of the car. Such as comfort, ease of use, NVH (noise/vibrations/harshne ss). They can easily achieve a 5 star safety rating without resorting to roll cages etc. That’s why we don’t see them in road cars.

I don’t see any valid reason for death trap cars to be legal to produce and sell. Every star rating higher gives you a greater chance of survival. Of course there’s an element of luck as someone mentioned, but I’d rather do everything possible to turn the odds in my favour. We should force the manufacturers to adhere to a minimum safety standard, just like with emissions. We’re not in a third world country here where we need brand new cars to be around $2k.

Jolby Wan – I’m wide awake, much more so than some. Just on holiday this week having fun in an environmentally way up in the mountains.

And the less mentioned about it the better probably!

Look out for the ‘5th Gear’ crash tests on ‘You Tube’ also.

Sorry but only had a quick scan read of comments. Spent some time in Malasia, Great people but crap Cars. Seen all sorts of fatilities in Proton Sagas: etc in Malasia. Death traps at best. If mutilation is your you, should buy one right away.

GOM – the Alfa was very standard, but tired when I bought it. Got a Vic RWC and rego, then set about removing anything that was un-neccesary. Added Auto-delta cage (bloke near me had one from an old group S car) welded it up and added the twinspark. Relaced all suspension parts and some Bridegestones. Oh, and a custom exhaust. Must get around to finishing it one day, but with twins due in 10 weeks, seems improbable!

Now I’m started, how do you think Mr Mark Webber got away with his shunt backwards last weekend. Pretty sure his Red Bull didn’t have an airbag etc. But did have a rather effective roll cage and a harness. Nuff said.

just on the helmets,you wouldnt be wearing a full face helmet going to the mall,there are some very good helmet designs, that can be worn all day with no vision ,head movement or hearing restrictions,such as the MICH2000,which is the helmet worn by the US army in afganistan,they cost $1500,but could be made from fibreglass ,to cut costs to almost nothing,i mean how often do you get shot in the head with an ak47 on parramatta road?.

Really started now – Sorry GOM you did state I could have one big post…..

Reducing the number of cars on our roads is THE ONLY way of reducing accidents. All people are capable of mistakes. Protecting yourself from others mistakes is what we’re after here, the best way to do that is not to drive when everyone else is. You cannot separate the environment from car culture / safety / so here’s Greenpeace’s answer;

Mobile without the automobile
The earth is turning into a greenhouse. The fist signs a global climate change are already evident today. The main reason for the artificial warming up of the planet is the massive increase in so-called greenhouse gases caused by human beings. These gases prevent heat in the atmosphere from being radiated back into space, with the result that heat builds up as if it were under a gigantic greenhouse roof. Droughts, cyclones and flooding on a catastrophic scale are the dire consequences. More than 50 per cent of the artificial greenhouse effect can be blamed on the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide (CO2).

The car – a nail in the climate’s coffin

Cars – together with power stations- are the main producers of CO2. Today 500 million cars world-wide emit four billion tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere – around 20 per cent of the total quantity produced by mankind. And the number of cars on the road is growing rapidly – currently twice as fast as the world’s population. Forecasts assume that this number will reach 2 billion world-wide by the year 2030. This will mean that petrol consumption will grow to an estimated 1.3 billion tonnes by 2030. CO2 emissions from traffic would then increase to more than 7.5 billion tonnes.

The car as a waster of raw materials

It is not only the steady growth of CO2 emissions which make the car environment problem number one. Petrol and diesel are based on oil. Cars consume more than half of all the crude oil produced world-wide: whereas 28 per cent of the oil flowed into the petrol tanks of cars in 1970, this figure has since grown to almost 60 per cent.

Every day 80 billion litres of oil are shipped across the world’s oceans and serious accidents involving tankers hit the headlines again and again – oil spills such as with the “Exxon Valdez” off Alaska in 1985 or the “Sea Empress” off the coast of Wales in 1996. Cars are ultimately responsible for these ecological catastrophes as the more petrol they consume, the more has to be transported. On top of this, on-shore and off-shore oil production is a permanent source of severe environmental pollution: accidents on drilling rigs, wastewater from oil refineries, leaks in storage tanks and pipelines. The contamination of the Ogoni land in Nigeria is only one example of the disastrous effects of oil production.

The car’s ecobalance: devastating

Automobile production also requires huge quantities of oil and other valuable raw materials. Countless tonnes of metals such as steel, aluminium and copper as well as plastics are used in the construction of bodies for 35 million new cars every year. The recycling of used cars is to date insufficiently developed. Many of the materials still end up as waste on landfills or are incinerated.

The list of damage caused to people and the environment by cars can be further added to:

Car exhaust fumes pollute the air of our cities with a cocktail of poisons consisting of benzene, nitrogen oxide, diesel carbon black and other toxic substances; air pollution and noise caused by cars make local inhabitants sick.
Toxic substances emitted from car exhaust pipes play a major role in the destruction of forests.
More and more agricultural land and natural habitats are being sliced up and asphalted or concreted over.
Ten thousands of people are killed in car accidents every year, and even a bigger number is injured.
In Germany alone, the Environmental Protection Agency puts the cost of damage caused as a result of environmental pollution from cars at approx. DM 21 million per year.
Policies with no concepts for the future

But in spite of this long list of negative consequences there is no sign of a change in thinking taking place. Politicians still encourage more car traffic instead of supporting alternative, forward-looking concepts. The car industry is only too ready to see mobility in terms of “automobility” even though the car has long ceased to guarantee mobility due to increasing congestion on the roads. Transport policy, with its decade-long emphasis on the automobile, has set a disastrous spiral in motion: road-building on a massive scale leads to more cars on the road, and high traffic density in turn provides an argument for building yet more roads. At the same time, the public transport network has been criminally neglected. Today’s railway network in Europe, for example, has existed since before the 2nd World War and has not been significantly extended since then.

Anyone who is in favour of an ecological transport policy which caters to the needs of the climate must start with the car: avoiding the incidence of traffic and shifting traffic away from the roads are the two central aspects of intelligent and environment-friendly mobility.

Avoiding traffic

The most important long-term task of transport policy is to prevent the incidence of superfluous traffic from the outset. Traffic avoidance must have top priority at all levels of action, such as city and regional planning, fiscal and subsidy policy. A city with “short routes” is an effective means of avoiding traffic. Living, shopping, working and leisure must be brought back closer together. This presupposes city development concepts which retain the liveliness and variety of each district so that people can find every thing they need for their daily life there.

Experts estimate that in Germany every car owner would have to pay at least an additional DM 2,000 per annum in order to cover all the costs caused by his car. Tax “rewards” for car driving must be abolished and instead of these financial incentives created in favour of more environmentally friendly means of transport.

Shifting traffic

The second central principle must be traffic shifting: to environment-friendly (foot, bicycle) or as far as possible ecologically compatible means of transport (bus, rail). The watchword here: the use of the car must be restricted to just a few functions and otherwise it must be replaced by environment-friendly systems. This presupposes an improvement in the supply of railway and tram services, bus lines, cycle paths and foot paths. The major part of future investments in the transport infrastructure must go towards these transport ways – and no longer towards the building of roads and car parks.

Studies show that it is indeed possible to bring about changes in behaviour if investments are made in alternatives to the car: in many Dutch municipalities bicycles are used three to four times more frequently than is usual in other European cities. In Zurich people use the tram twice as often as in comparable German cities.

The city of Schwerin, as Greenpeace has shown, offers a good example of the possibilities already available to us today. The study entitled “Vision of a car-free city” offers a concrete concept – transferable to many other cities. Amongst other things, it describes how public transport could be optimised to make it the main means of transport.

For freight transport too, framework conditions are needed which encourage a shift in traffic – away from the roads and onto waterways and rail. Transport by road must be made more expensive. It is not acceptable that road building is financed from federal and regional government funds, i.e., from tax revenue, whereas investments in railway lines have to be covered by higher freight transport costs and fares.

SmILE: First aid for the climate

The first, and indispensable, step towards effective protection of the environment, however, is also a drastic reduction in petrol consumption by the cars on the road. And the Greenpeace “SmILE” concept has shown that at least a halving of consumption by cars is possible immediately. SmILE stands for Small, Intelligent, Light, Efficient and describes what the series car of the future must offer: they have to be light, as compact as possible, efficient and intelligently built.

The automobile industry is called upon to take this long overdue technological leap forward instead of repeating the misguided developments of the past in new markets. At present, for example, car manufacturers are launching massive campaigns in the countries of Asia in order to sell their western-style petrol-guzzling dinosaurs there – which, in view of the threat of climatic collapse, is irresponsible, if not downright unscrupulous. The SmILE, a Twingo converted by Greenpeace, proves that halving petrol consumption is feasible immediately. However, this fact does not mean that as a product the car is clean, healthy or environmentally compatible. In the long term the number of cars on the road and the number of kilometres driven must be significantly reduced world-wide. What is needed is a new understanding of mobility – without the automobile.

Spandau – Suspect someone may be after me with an AK47 after that post. But it was building up in me……..

cheeeses earthy

Adamn – I see no reason at all for roll cages to be built in so that you barely even notice they are there. I’ve seen some very clever designs by very clever people.

A well designed roll cage installed into an already 5 star car would have to give it an extra 2 stars if not 3. Why stop at 5 stars? Why not ten. The technology has been around for years, why not take full advantage of it?

Like you say, force them to do better by introducing new laws. Make them work for the 30grand or more they want on average for a new car. Let’s be honest, does anyone on here at all really think a new base model commodoore is really worth the 33grand or what ever it is they want for it? I think not!!

Sorry Earthy, I tried, I really did but I got as far as “avoiding traffic” & just couldn’t keep going. I knew you wouldn’t be able to resist the temptation. Holidays or not!!

Jolby wan – That’s why we try not to encourage Earthy too much. Once he gets wound up it takes awhile for him to get it out of his system.

Spandau – Dunno about Paramatta road (unless your a melbourne storm supporter), but I know parts of melbourne where getting shot in the head wouldn’t surprise me that much. I’m sure Sydney has similar sorts of places.

Sorry, I meant to say – I see no reason why they shouldn’t be built in so you barely know they are there.

every street in sydney gom,but due to the new gun laws,the criminals are not allowed to shoot people with semi or automatic weapons anymore,.and with the cages,with todays aerospace tecnology,it would be easy to build an almost invisible roll cage on the production line.

thanks guys.

for what??????

I’m guessing we provide comic relief. HC34 is having a bad few days.

As for those stupid gun laws, they are the biggest load of crap since the Lada Niva. As if criminals give a stuff that the gun they carry is an illegal model. They are criminals for crying out loud!! A criminals choice of firearm is either a pistol or a shortened shotty, both of which were already illegal. Don’t ask how I know what guns they prefer. Not everyone I know is an angel. They are criminals, they don’t care if a certain type of weapon is illegal. So it’s not going to deter them one little bit. If I remember correctly martin bryant used a bolt action .22 & is the biggest spree killer in australian history. If a nut job wants t kill lots of people they will. The weapon of choice these days being a bomb. Much more devastating than any gun.
A couple of other facts of about guns. A bolt action is more accurate than an auto or a semi-auto. I can fire one accurate round every two seconds from a bolt action rifle & I WILL hit what I’m aiming at. That means that I could drop 30 people a minute with the right magazine. My old man is faster & more accurate than me, so are most of his mates.
As soon as those gun laws were introduced 10-15yrs ago, there was a sudden surge in the availability of extended capacity magazines. Within a week of those laws I had 2 new 30 shot magazines for my old .223. Prior to the introduction of those laws the maximum magazine size for my gun had beed 8 rounds. A silencer can be made from a 2lt coke bottle. I won’t say how but it would be good for 4-6 rounds & then you just get another coke bottle. The silencer throws off accuracy somewhat but nowhere near enough that I can’t make every shot a head shot at 250m. With any form of silencer I am officially an assasin. The coke bottle trick only works with the slower firing rate of a bolt action. Firing too quickly will stop the silencer working. So I can go plant myself on a city rooftop & pick people off at will if I was such a looney tune.
The logic behind banning semi & full autos was full of holes & funnily enough has not slowed down the number of gun related incidents at all.
It was a knee jerk reaction by a bunch of morons who wouldn’t know semi auto from a bolt action if I hit them over the head with one.
Effing idiot politicians. I’m even more passionate about gun laws & proper firearm training than I am about the roll cages, so I will leave that alone now.

Absolutley correct about the near on invisible roll cages there Spandau. It is no trouble at all to hide the cage under the interior. The metals & composites that are available to use are so strong that bars can be relativley thin & easy to hide. When the Torrie comes back in a couple of weeks I will post pics of it with no interion & then with the interior fitted a few weeks later. The cage will only be exposed around the front footwells, one cross bar visible behind the front seats & two uprights in the C pillar area. The rest will be hidden. It has been designed specifically not to impeed the vehicles everyday use. Even though it won’t be an everyday driver. The man who designed it designs cages for top feul dragsters. He claims it to be one of the simplest designs he has had to do. He still charged me a fortune though.
Anyone who thinks cages combined with well designed crumple zones & airbags won’t save lives is a total knob.

Top form GOM.
Although it’s only correct to have whatever technology in the form of ESP, crumple zones, ABS, airbags etc etc etc fitted if they work,I’ve seen some horredous accidents where people have been saved by this stuff. I do feel a bit like we’re being ‘up-sold’ here. Surely it’s better to not be on the road in the first place if at all possible.
An element of ‘risk’ exists in every action a human undertakes, you can’t insure against everything, but you can avoid unneccesary risk and buying one of those Chinese Utes seems about as mad as making a chocolate teapot. The ute is used by tradies whom get up early and so are sleepy on the road in the mornings then perhaps stop for a cold one on the road home. Not having any safety equipment seems like giving a bandsaw to a toddler.

A wealthy lady decides to go on a photo safari in Africa, taking her faithful aged poodle, named Cuddles, along for company.

One day the poodle starts chasing butterflies & before long, Cuddles discovers that he’s lost. Wandering about, he notices a leopard heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch.

The old poodle thinks “Oh, oh! I’m in deep sh!t now!” Noticing some old bones on the ground close by, he immediately settles down to chew on the bones with his back to the approaching cat. Just as the leopard is about to launch it’s attack, the old poodle exclaims loudly “Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I wonder if there are anymore around?”

Hearing this the young leopard halts it’s attack in mid-strike, a look of terror comes over him & he slinks away into the trees. “Whew!”, says the leopard, “That was close! That old poodle nearly had me!”

Meanwhile, a monkey who had been watching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use & trade it for protection from the leopard. So off he goes, but the old poodle sees him heading after the leopard & figures that something must be up. The monkey soon catches up to the leopard, spills the beans & strikes a deal for himself with the leopard.

The leopard is furious at being made a fool of & says “Here, monkey, hop on my back & see what’s going to happen to this conniving canine!”.

Now the old poodle sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his back & thinks “What am I going to do now?”, but instead of running, the old poodle sits down with his back to his attackers, pretending he hasn’t seen them yet & just when they get close enough to hear the old poodle says, “Where’s that damn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard!”

Moral of the story: Don’t mess with old farts! Age & treachery will always overcome youth & exuberance. Bulldust & brilliance only come with age & experience.

Sorry. I’m in a wierd mood this morning.

Methinks everybody has been examining this animal from the wrong end.
Would it not be better to avoid accidents rather than survive them?
To my knowledge there is no technology in existence which overcomes the biggest killer on the roads….stupidity.
All the money advocated in above posts woul be better spent on compulsory safety training. The teachers would be trained to spot the terminally stupid who would then be taken outside and shot. This would make any shitbox a safe car.
Going home now so have a nice weekend.

I already made that point Ben. Accidents would still happen but a lot less of them. The driving instructors would have to be re-trained though as many of them already suffer from the terminal stupidity you mentioned. I’m a big advocate for cumpulsory advanced driver training & skid pan time. My kids have already been told that they can’t have thier licences until they can pass my tests, never mind the governments.

If we wanted another crap ute in Australia, we’d just tell Kia to release one. We’ve got enough made-in-China crap here without Great Wall

thats funny gom.commodore holden you retard,kia is korean,proton is malaysian,and i would buy a great wall before some second hand jap ute.so f off spastic.and the only problem with driver training is,well lets put it this way,the government can spend a million dollars to train up a sas soldier,but the self trained competition paintball champ will blow the soldiers nuts off every time,and that applies right across the board to even the sex workers.

Spandua have you had a few to many or somthing SAS are the best in the world they can do thing’s a normal Human just wouldn’t or can’t no paint ball champ could ever beat a SAS soldier in his prime Australia has some of the best soliders in the world no paint ball champ has any disipline and a good solider needs Disipline so yeah I would stand and fight back to back next to a SAS in battle and you can be with your paintball champ.

Self trained sex workers? What?
The trouble with those Paint ball poofs is that there is no kick on those toys that they use. Or any range. They would turn thier pants brown the moment they pulled the trigger of an AK & even that only has a small kick to it. Then they wouldn’t be used to something that you don’t have to aim 6 inches above what you want to hit. Paintball is for when your a crissed as a picket with your mates.
Best drivers have usually spent time on farms as kids & been driving go carts & oddesys & stuff like that from 3 or 4yrs of age. Think Brocky, Lowndes the Kelly boys, Whincup. The list goes on. Natural talent has a bit to do with it to.
Bottom line – practice, practice, practice. Keep practicing until you can get it right every time & then practice some more.

speedo,id like to agree with you,but there is no contest,but in the US they are now getting the the soldiers going to afganistan geting some training from paintball players,and if you ask the dutch ,germans, yanks in afganastan,might be better if we stick to kitchen/laundry dutys.

that right,practice,not do this do that!

Must be saturday night !!!

Paintball is a sheepload of fun!-till you get shot in the ass at point blank range while your changing and some knob leaves the safety off!!
Had bruise for weeks,and the paint wouldnt come off!

I grew out of guns at 15!

We have a holden dealership down the rd who seems to be selling a few great walls!!
Ugly-really ugly!!

Gawd. Don’t tell me that holden are taking part in that catastrophe!! No wonder they are up the creek. Dealing with matchbox toys. Sorry, matchbox cars are probably tougher than the Great Walls.

hey adam n shut your mouth.if you lost a mate to a fatal car accident you’d be shattered too
you insenstive prick.dont tell me i’m getting too emotional.and spandex i said thank you to those guys who undastood why i was so upset and angry.they were black dog,G.O.M.,to name a few.

Yep i have seen them at
-gmh
-hyundai
-mitsubishi
-daewoo-(figures)

I bet there rep came around like one of those guys with a suitcase full of crap!!

oigoodaieemate ubyemany Weeegiveyou cheaperprice yes!!

holdendrip,i must have missed something,i didnt realise you were upset,is it hubby again?is he spending too much time in the shed?i did tell you to divorce him long time ago.

thanks for the info on the vauxhall ute also hdrippo,do you know anymore about it like what year it happened,the one i saw was immaculately restored then i saw another one that looked original

Take it easy Spandau. HC34 lost a mate to idiots on the roads. Pull yer head in.

What do you expect from a Chinese ute with the same passenger cell as a 90’s Rodeo, your better off buying a used Hilux. The Great Wall shouldn’t even be allowed on the road.

The problem is China doesn’t have a quality control system like we have so the thing’s they build don’t need to pass any standards and thats why you should stay away from them.

And i don’t care what a paint ball champs have been doing i never done paint ball in my life to hard to orginize want to any back to my point to even be considerd for the SAS you need to have been a solider for about 6 to 7 years and you needed to be at the top of your Platoon have to have marksman skills the SAS are the elite soliders of the world you can’t tell me some weekend warroir would last against them there is just no way if we had a team of paint ball pro’s and sas shooting at each other Spandua you can go on the paint ball guys team and i’ll go on the sas team hows that.

Last time I checked guys, a roll cage is their to protect a driver in the case of a roll over, hence why they both use the word roll in their name. I reckon that they should ban cars that have a low rating, and only sell cars which have attained a certain rating. And for those sayingb that the price of safe cars are too high, think again. In the new car market a sub $20k Ford Fiesta will give you a five star crash rating (EuroNCAP). And there are a bunch of 4 star rating cars for sale in the under 10k market.

On another note, The jumbuck is just woeful, the great wall, not much better. What was Daniel Cotterill thinking when he said: “Great Wall has continued its solid start in Australia after achieving a high two star result in recent ANCAP crash testing of it V240 twin cab utility,”. WAS HE HIGH!?!?! I think some one should explain to him how the system works.

On yet another note, is it just me or does the Great Wall car in the video have the look of the front half of the previous generation Nissan Navara, and the back end of the Holden Colorado?

And finally, I dont think you would catch me dead in a 1-2 star car. Actually you might, because it would have probably ploughed into a tree by the time you found me.

There’s a video on You tube done by 5th gear (Shsh) of a Renault Modus (sort of Nissan Micra based thing) hitting a Land Rover Disco. Now who do you think would have been able to get out and walk away from an offset head on impact at a closing speed of over 100km/h. That’s right, the Nissan Micra driver! Also note that the 4×4 was more prone to topple and roll in the accident and as you;re 70% more likely to suffer a severe traumatic brain injury or spinal cord injury in just such a roll over the accident is compounded.

Just a thought about roll cages, most modern cars have just such a structure built in. But if you drive anything with less than 5 stars ANCAP, fitting a roll cage and full harnesses ain’t a bad idea if you want some sort of realistic chance of surviving even quite a slow speed accident.

To get an idea of how it feels to suffer say a 10km/h impact try running on foot into a tree. Ouch, hurts a bit doesn’t it.

If you really want to avoid a crash, avoid putting yourself into unnessesary danger by driving less in the first place. I’m know there are many many ways of re-organising a lifestyle towards this. Having been there, done that etc etc etc.

Buy your food local, get the train, ride a bike (preferably not in front of a half asleep zombie on their way to the shops, work, home from pub etc etc etc).

i would buy a great wall or a jumbuck any day before a second hand hilux or what ever,they are all assembled in thailand made out of chinese parts.the only way the hilux/navara etc get any stars is by adding a slightly stronger bumber bar.put a light weight bull bar on the proton and great wall will put them up there with the volvo.iv had tritons,navara and a hilux,and they are just as bad ,they are all crap unless you fit a roll bar in the tray and a bull bar

case closed G.O.M.. and by the way if this was a forum for the dribble coming out of your mouth about topics such as martin bryant and types of driver tests you would put your kids through then you would be on the money but its not and no one cares about your uneducated opinons!

Ok i cant believe this but earthy is right as far as prevention is better than cure!!

Im sure a lot of people drive around thinking there airbags abc/bbc/vdc and crunch control will save them in a 100k t/bone or h/on.

i think 90% of people think that way black dogie,same with the safety inspection for rego in nsw,people think their car is as good as new just because the grease monkey said so.

What case nosious?
This is a car blog its all about opinions
mostly on cars – but sometimes we have opinions on other things.
Like my opinion of you – TOOL!!!
Now go and finish putting the turbo stickers on your clio.

is he that clio dickhead.

Yes!

nos – What case you monkey? Your an idiot with your head up your clacker. It’s stupid little turds like you that cause accidents in the first place. You think your in a safe car so you drive like a dingbat. I know you can’t possibly drive any other way because clearly you are a dingbat. You obviously are suffering one of the cases of terminal stupidity that was mentioned earlier & should be shot. Even spandau thinks your a dickhead! You obviously don’t know $h!t from clay because your some little punk with no actual knowledge, on here argueing with people with experience beyond your comprehension. I’m an ex-race driver & qualified mechanic as well a member of a very succesful drag team. Earthy is a genius, literally, that sees the effect of road trauma everyday he is at work. Black Dog, well I don’t know what Black Dog’s experience is but it’s clear he knows alot more than he let’s on. You, your a brain dead turkey that probably doesn’t even know where the bloody oil goes. Your a menace to society you selfish, arrogant stupid little child. No F@#K OFF before I get nasty & let you know what I really think of drop kicks like you. Do everyone else a favour. Sell your car & hand in your licence. You don’t deserve them. Even a car like a clio deserves a better owner than you.

ballarina spandex boy posted ute info on another site but just for you will tell you again.in the depression 1930’s farmers wife wrote to manufacuers n asked if they could build something for hubby to take her to church in on sundays and for him to take pigs n sheep to markets.one you saw would have had vic 001 which means the very first ford ute produced in australia.GM australia followed soon after.

NOS one word for you EMO!

By the way nos, at least I take an interest in what my kids do & ways I can prepare them better for the idiots like you that they will come across on the roads. If more parents gave a stuff the road toll would be lower because they would know how to handle a car, respect other road users & know that there are consequences to stupidity that can cost lives & destroy families.
As for no one cares about my opinion, I really don’t give a rats if they do or don’t. At least I have the respect of people on this forum because I’m not a COMPLETE idiot. (only half an idiot).
You on the other hand have come on here & told almost everyone that they are wrong & that you know better.
Who’s the f@#king idiot now?

like i said G.O.M. nos is an EMO

Now now HC34, don’t insult EMO’s like that!!

Spandau – http://www.Fastlane.com.a u/Features/First_ute.htm

That’s Ford’s version of the first ute. They were around before that but as I have said before Ford was the first to produce a ute in numbers.

good info there,but i still cant find anything on that vauxhall/fj copy.

Spandau – I’ll have a look around for you tommorow, (motoGP starting soon), but I think it would be safe to assume that copy, is exactly that – a copy. As in not built before we had the holden ute. After all wasn’t that your original question, which one came first?

Wow look at all the comments, talk about going around and around.
As I don’t have either the time or inclination to read every line I may have missed a point or two but;
I did not say driver training, but SAFETY training. This is because normally some whacker will start up about advanced driver encouraging antisocial behaviour. Despire my advanced training being 75% all about NOT getting all crossed up sideways etc and 25% how not to panic if things come a bit unstuck and handle the situation. My safe driving course however was brilliant at teaching how to identify such risks as the Termnally Stupid and avoid their accident, and of course potentially bad situations in general.
Yes any vehicle with an ADR has basic rollover protection.
Ford Australia designed and built the first Utility in the 1930’s. Prior to this ther were only light trucks and pickups, both scaled down trucks with all the “comforts” of their big brothers. The ute was and is still based on a sedan platform. This means of course that Hilux etc are not Utes but pickups.
Earthy you speak some sense, but we in the provinces do not have public transport, local shops etc, and simply because of road conditions cycling is a death wish. Yes we try to do the shopping etc before leaving the town proper.
Losing a loved sucks at any time but to have one taken out by a TS while going quietly about their business is total shit.
Smoko over must return to the coalface.

Your absolutley right about the content of most advanced driver training corses Zene. They are about not getting into the poo in the first place & identifying idiots. That’s why I also mention skid pan training seperately.
Sorry you are wrong about Ford designing the first ute. I put a link up somewhere around these blogs that will show you that the worlds first hardtop ute was actually designed & built by the producers of Austin Sevens in the early 30’s. Ford were only the first to produce the ute in any great numbers. Prior to that they had only been available through special order from the Austin Seven range or were modifications of soft top light trucks trucks. The difference between a ute & a pick up is wether or not you are a yank. Nothing more. Just out of curiosity Ben, what sedan is the hilux based off exactly?
If you can’t find my link anywhere then check out Historic Winton. All the information & photographic proof you need to show that Ford were NOT the first to design the ute is on thier website.
I swear if I have to go through all this again I’m going to scream.

nos you are a plonker. I have raced drag cars for 14years. If I didn’t have roll cages & a car that is designed to fall apart around me I would have been dead ten times over. You should learn to look at things that are more than 3ft past the end of your own bonnet. I don’t know you but really, the others are right, your a moron.
I’m not about to start driving less Earth Lover. I just want everyone elso to start driving less. More open road for me. Whee!

Yeah clearly im an emo cos i mentioned the environment! Guys im actually a lawyer so therefore have an IQ bigger than a combination of all you and by the looks of it know alot more about road safety than you half wits. XUI when did i ever say roll cages weren’t lifesaving devices necessary in race cars? And what makes me a clio driver? just cos i say they are safer than a valiant?? The only point i was trying to make was that some people make selfish choices when it comes to what cars they drive. You cannot disagree with me that if you have someone driving a 2.5+ tonne 4X4, whether they are a good driver or not, they are driving around a lethal tool. they are above the crumple zone on all other normal passenger cars (the type of car no doubt your kids will be buying for their first GOM) and when they are not being used for actual 4×4 uses, they are completely senseless.

Now- we can all upsize our passenger vehicles to combat this problem OR we can embrace the revolution and drive well packaged cars that are safer than any before them. Look at all the major car magazines.. engines in new cars in the next decade are downsizing dramatically. The next beemer 3 series in europe are going to have turbo 3 cylinder motors as an entry level. The days of the 2.5 tonne 4×4s being used as passenger vehicles are numbered. This is not an everyman for himself type of society we live in. You can buy your piss weak TD patrol that couldnt pull a greased pipe out of a pigs arse and fit your bull bar and revel in the knowledge you will flatten any car around you in a substantial collision, but at the end of the day society will judge you harshly for the selfish decisions you are making at the expense of other road users.

G.O.M it sounds like you have an advanced diploma in B.S.. You should take your valiant or whatever pile of s*** you drive and end your miserable life.. you dont have the respect of anyone here, just end it GOM your not doing the world any favours by sticking around..

Hey everyone.. want to hear a pile of dribble??

This is straight from the uneducated mouth of GOM…

“Not really fussed about crash test ratings to be honest. I don’t care if it is a 5 star car, you get hit by a semi, your dead. If your times up your times up.
It’s all well and good to want to ban old cars or cars that don’t rate highly in safety but think how that would effect people who can’t afford more than a few grand on a car. Without a car alot of those people can’t get to work. Unemployment goes up & the economy suffers. Meanwhile people will be claiming that banning low rating vehicles was a success not realising the lower road toll is due to less people being able to afford so called safe cars & therefore not driving.
It’s a load of BS.

If they were serious about safety in cars roll cages would be mandatory as would a 5 point harness & helmets. Until that’s law these safety rating are a effing joke.”

Btw GOM, not every accident involves a semi.

And cars are for practical transport.. we drive around doing things like 15 minute trips to the supermarket and never top more than 110Km/h. we like to be able to reach the glove box if we have to. I like to be able to drive away without doing up my helmet. Putting a 5 point safety harness in a passenger car is beyond ridiculous.

Look how far our car safety has come… where is the need for a roll cage on our roads? granted, race cars need these because they are going up to 3 times the speed we will ever reach on our roads. However you cannot fit a roll cage in a car without a harness and helmet because otherwise you would simply die when the collision impact makes your skull hit the steel tubing.

yes you can retro fit a roll cage to a jumbuck and make it safer.. personally though i would rather buy a higher crash rated car and maintain my practicality!! Whos with me?!

http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8

smart crash test into a concrete barrier at 70mph. look at how the passenger cell holds up sans any sort of roll cage.

GOM you are a complete half wit

not me nos,im sure earthy would agree that most people would probably walk to the mall ,and only use the car as a last resort,before going in to the trouble of helmets harness etc.and it is those short little trips that seem to cause the biggest problems,i think the most accidents happen only few km from the drivers home,not to mention the eviromental issues.

if a manufacturer released a car with drivers seat in the middle of the car,like bmw had as a concept car years ago,i would buy it,having the driver and passenger sitting side by side is a safety nightmare,and absolute insanaty,as far as car safety is concerned,it hasnt even started yet.

also nos,reaching in to the glove box,texting etc causes a shit load of accidents.

i meant reaching into the glovebox while stationary i.e. at a red light or after you start your car in your driveway whatever, of course not while actually driving. Why are you trying to pick holes in what im saying? a 15 min car trip in australia happens all the time and is a journey that would take 2 hours to walk or a good 45 minutes to ride… im saying its these trips where no one would want to put a 5 point harness and helmet on

your not with me spandau? so you saying you would retro fit a jumbuck with a roll cage??

i would,it takes about 5seconds to put a helmet on and 5 seconds for the harness,and i would have a roll bar in the tray in the jumbuck and a very light bullbar for sure,i better go gom is going to roast you any second

GOM doesnt know what day it is let alone how to respond to the sensible voice of reason of myself. spandau why would you buy a jumbuck in the first place? and do you have a harness, roll cage & helmet for your daily driver at the moment?

by the way spandau bullbars only transfer energy to the crumple zone, they dont actually protect the occupants. the front of most cars is designed to fold under the passenger cell so your bullbar would serve no purpose. why on earth would you buy a jumbuck anyway?

yes sort of,iv got a polaris ranger,not a daily drive,but about 100 times more fun,and i like the jumbuck because my first car was a datsun 1200 ute,so its the closest thing,which had to have a roll bar in the tray and a small bull bar just to stop the engine from ending up in the cabin after hitting a minty wrapper.

the polaris ranger isn’t street legal.

the absurdity of people advocating roll cages & 5 point harnesses and helmets in road cars beggars belief. What have you guys been smoking?

you can get relatively safe 2nd hand cars for cheap money these days.

roll cages in passenger vehicles MAY have been a good idea back in the 70’s and 80’s when many cars had the structural integrity of a wet paper bag. Now you can have quite major shunts in cars like the smart car (let alone the clio) and walk away if a little shaken! they essentially have a “roll cage” built into the structures themselves. it is an example of form & function becoming one. No need for helmets guys.

Quote from nos – “Guys I’m actually a lawyer so therefore I have an IQ bigger than a combination of all of you and by the looks of it know alot more about road safety than you half wits”.
Geez, you think your good don’t you nos? Got a few tickets on yourself there sunshine. Not exactly going to make you very popular around here with us genuine enthusiasts that have actual knowledge & experience to back us up, not just a big head like yours. What exactly does being a lawyer have to do with anything what-so-ever other than proving your a complete cock with no morals? What you do for a living has absolutely nothing at all to do with IQ. I bet you drive a BMW. If not it’s a Merc.
You show just how stupid you really are when you make statements like 4×4’s being a lethal tool. What car isn’t a lethal tool, you tool?
As for your youtube clip. Thanks for proving my point. If you were in that car you would be dead. If your not dead you have severe brain damage. Something you seem to already have plenty of experience with. I already have my kids first cars. They have been building them for themselves for the last 12months or so now. One is a VX Commodoore the other has a 05 Lancer. They have another few years before they can go for thier L’s & they have been driving/riding anything they legally can ever since they were about 5. So they actually know how to handle a car reasonably well to. I just have to hope that I have drummed it into thier heads to be patient & courteous on the roads.
Last time I heard there are one hell of a lot of fatalities due to excessive speed. So your point about people only doing 110kmh is just a load of BS like everything else you have had to say. Never mind if two cars collide head on at 110kmh each. How’s your 5 star car fairing then? Not too bloody well. The piss weak TD Patrol will pull half a dozen of your clios backwards if they were all hooked up trying to drive the opposite direction. So your wrong about that to.

I assume somewhere in that deep nothingness known as your head there is a little peanut brain. Now with that little peanut brain of yours, let’s see if you can grasp a basic fact. You are a lawyer, supposedly. I wouldn’t come along trying to tell you about the law, because I have no training in that field at all & anything I would have to say would probably leave me looking like a goose. What makes you so qualified to be telling an ex-racing, mechanic with a multiple modified vehicle history, that they know nothing at all about cars, car construction & safety features on cars? Oh, that’s right, NOTHING. You have no idea. All you have shown is that you are a selfish turkey that thinks everyone should do what you want & anyone who doesn’t should be shot.
I never said to wear helmets. I actually said that I would not support that idea. As for it is inconvenient to wear a harness & it takes too long to get on & off. What a load of crap! If a V8SC drivers can get one out, one in, HANS device connected, harness on, adjust belts & get thier drink tube in, all in under 30 seconds, what is going to be so hard about putting on a straight harness? As for reaching your glovebox, put your CD’s in the centre console, want a map, shove it next to the seat or buy a GPS. Anything else you want you don’t need that bad that you have to get it right there at the red light. If it’s more difficult to get the harness on & off, good. That will encourage people to walk & ride bicycles more or to use public transport. A 15 minute car trip at 60kmh takes me about 45 mins on foot & 25mins on a pushy. When’s the last time you got some exercise you lazy bast@rd?
As for what respect I have around here, well I’m a regular & I don’t find anyone agreeing with you except for one little 18yr old that even you would agree doesn’t know $h!t from clay yet until he has some experience. No-one around here is calling me dickhead. Only you. People here are generally smart enough to recognise stupidity when they hear it & you have plenty of that for all of us.
In conclusion nos, your a complete knob with absolutley no idea about cars or thier construction. I bet you have never even put a harness on in a car, let alone driven a car that actually needs one. The only voice of reason you are hearing, is that little voice inside your head. It should be telling you one thing right now, “shut up, shut up, shut up”.
Go stuff yourself up an exhaust pipe you clown.

what exactly do you stand for GOM? What is it that your trying to add to this discussion? bigger cars are better? everyone should wear 5 point harnesses? you modified drag cars therefore you know about passenger car safety? that your kids drifted billy carts so they know how to avoid accidents?

You’re a complete tool

re the lawyer thing, just retaliating to you saying i dont know anything. bet you didnt even pass year 12.. you sound dumb as dog s***

haha and to top it off- atleast i can afford a beemer.

haha i will laugh the day i see you driving your VX commordore with your recaro seats and harness on. i will laugh even harder when you have an accident and you dont even reach the airbag and your neck takes on the full force of the crash

plus harnesses require racing seats and last time i checked people came in all shapes and sizes.. you seriously suggesting we would all have to get custom seats made whenever we buy a car or sell it? your so off the page its not funny GOM

So, I was right about that to. Not surprising. So what you call a cheap car is probably quite unaffordable to many. Yes I did pass year 12 & complete engineering studies at uni. Oops. Didn’t know that about me, did you?
What my initials stand for has been explained before & quite frankly it’s personal & none of your business. Sufficent to say that it is showing respect to someone close to me who is now dead.
As for what I’m trying to add to the discussion, I have made my point crystal clear a long time ago. If you don’t understand what I said then you are just too stupid to get it. Your BMW was paid for by the bank. I pay cash for everything I own because quite honestly I probably make more money in a day than you do in a week. I don’t own a BMW because I don’t want one. Trust me I can more than afford it. I have no need to try & show myself as being superior by owning a more expensive car. I have what is now a highly modified VN that is faster & safer than your BMW. I have no need to show what a plonker I am.
Your a di@kless monkey that doesn’t deserve anymore of my time. I’ve got better things to do than waste my time on someone too stupid to understand something so simple.

Go back & read over my previous posts & you will discover that I have covered all of your arguements in detail.
Now I’m done with you for real you BMW driving C@#KSUCKER.

dont give a f*** wat the letters G.O.M stand for was more asking wat you stand for personally? haha thats a joke, a VN being safer than a beemer. know which one i would take if i had to crash it.

No really GOM, wat was your point? what did you make crystal clear? everyone here is waiting for it..

I made it crystal clear in earlier posts. Stop being so lazy & go back to read them for yourself. You obviously missed the part abut the VN being highly modified. In other words it has little semblance to a VN anymore. You also missed the part about the engineering studies didn’t you? Otherwise you would know that engineers specialise in structural design. Like car design. I’ve bee around here along time & earned the respect I have. Your a newbie that should learn to pull thier head in.

Did everyone else get my point? It is just this simpleton isn’t it?
Now I have a business to run so if you don’t mind terribly, could you simply F@#K OFF nos-tril?

No don’t stop. You two are hilarious. An idiot lawyer argueing cars with a mechanic race driver. Stupidity like that is always funny & very very rare. I usually find most people have more brains than that.

nos – I bet you take your car to a mechanic for service, don’t you?

everyone GOM must clearly be full of BS.

He has said he is:

1. an ex race driver

2. a qualified mechanic

3. has an engineering degree

4. part of a successful drag team

5. runs his own business after hours

6. gets paid daily, and in cash, yet doesnt have a credit rating

7. earns so much money he decides to spend it on a VN

8. has a disabled child

GOM these are the points you made:

1. crash test ratings are useless because every accident involves a semi and therefore you would be necessarily dead anyway

- this is just inane

2. We shouldnt ban old cars (was this point even in discussion?) cos people cannot afford new, safer cars.

-you can get relatively safe 2nd hand cars for 2 grand

3. people should wear safety harnesses in passenger cars

- again, this is just inane

4. a Valiant is safer than a Clio

proven completely wrong with video footage from you tube

5. Roll cages in passenger cars make sense

-modern cars do not need roll cages because they are required to meet certain standards that roll cages would only detract from- like not hitting your head on the interior and dying instantly!

7. All driving instructors are useless cos they only teach the road rules not how to handle an out of control car.

-i would like to see instructors telling their learner drivers to deliberately lose control on wet roads. advanced driver training courses are there for a reason and they are run on closed tracks and cost a fair amount of dough and therefore the government is in no position to make them compulsory and therefore make the cost of getting a licence blow out of proportion

In G.O.M.’s defence, I don’t see anywhere that he has made the claims you say he has. Such as being paid daily, in cash – he said he makes more in a day than you do in a week & that he pays for everything in cash.That’s not what you reckon he said. He said he has his own business – he didn’t say when he runs it. What car a person drives often doesn’t have anything at all to do with the money they have. For all you know nos, he might have spent 30grand modifying this vn he spoke of & it may actually be safer than your BMW. He never said EVERY accident involves a semi just that if you get hit by one your stuffed, no matter what your in. He didn’t say people can’t afford new cars. He said not EVERYBODY can afford new cars. I can’t for one. I drive an EF Falcon, it’s the best thing I can afford. Not everyone earns the money of a lawyer.
What does his disabled child have to do with anything at all? Do you have something against disabled kids nos?
It sounds to me like G.O.M. has worked his ass off to get to where he is today & has done it by himself, not with handouts. If that’s the case, then good on him. There’s nothing wrong with being involved with racing/drag teams & what he does on his time is his own business, not ours. Who are we to judge?

On to my points – You have obviously never done an advanced driver course or you would know that they are not about throwing a car out of control. The are about avoiding accidents in the first place. A point I believe was made by G.O.M. & another (sorry, forgotten your name). If you have so much money I suggest you pay the approx $300 it would cost you to do an advanced driving course. You seem like the sort of person who would benefit from these sort of courses. Those courses are held on closed circuits because obstacles need to be set up & because accidents can happen. Having them on the road is just plain stupid & I haven’t heard anyone advocate that at all.
I also see no reason why roll cages shouldn’t be incorporated into modern car design. The technologly is there to do it & make it user friendly, so why not just do it?
My conclusion is that your just an Ahole nos, that is looking for a fight. Why don’t you just go crawl back into whatever hole it was that you crawled out of?

Thanks for the defending XU1 but it really is’nt needed. nos is obviously just a w@nka so I’m not going to bother with him anymore.

G.O.M. – Fair enough. I just hate people without any basis for thier opinion try to talk down & be abusive towards people with actual knowledge.

nos – Are you going to answer my question? Do you take your car to a mechanic for service & repairs?
By the way nos, I don’t know when you last took driving lessons but essentially driving instructors do only teach the rules. Specifically they teach you haw to pass the test, not how to be a good driver. If you need evidence of that just go for a drive & see haw may idiots you come across.

thats true,i haven seen a P plater take any notice of road rules in at least the last 10 years.

NOS I’m not smart all i am is a worthless security gaurd or patrolly as we think of ourselves but i can tell you you won’t win against G.O.M Spandua and Earthy it just won’t happen you made your point and so have the other’s attacking them will get you no were give it up man your wasteing your time by the way Cilo Cr@p as clarkson said There french there a surrender monkey they look good thats about it sell your rubbish and get youreslf a WRX then you would be styling.

Has anyone else been going nuts sending txts to the penzoil competition to win 20 laps of Winton in a Formula Ford?
God I hope I win.

for the record GOM was abusive to me well before i said anything about him being a complete imboscile. So yes i did stoop to his level but geez it was satisfying.

but now we have sorted out who the real men are maybe XUI and GOM can get there torana and VN together in their garage and talk about the good old days when cars were bigger and safer and how much they wanna get down and dirty with each other.

yes clios are built like s*** and painted with loo brushes but they s*** all over valiants in crash tests, that was the only point i was trying to make.

haha but GOM they still outhandle any VN, modified or not, hands down.

haha couldnt help but have a dig.

Go back & look at your post 18 nos. Is that you calling me a selfish imbecile? I’m simply giving as good as I’m getting. Take Speed’s advise, give up, you will never get anywhere talking $h!t around me. I will just keep giving it to you until you get so sick of me that you go away. I treat people with no knowledge with the disdain that they deserve if they are abusive towards me first, which you were. You mustn’t be a very good lawyer or you would know when you are in an argument you cannot possibly win.

Oh, the following post you call me a doofus. Who started on who you flea ridden dog. If your a lawyer you know exactly what I mean when I call you a dog.

Clio vs Vali. I’ll have the vali thanks. Dunno if it’s safer or not but if I’m gunna die it sure as hell isn’t going to be in a clio. At least a Vali has style. And a real motor, real metal, real interior. A clio reminds me of a Matchbox toy.
A VN will outdo a Vali anyday in the handling stakes. That’s standard. Who knows what gom’s vn is like. Ive seen some radical things done to them in my time as a panelbeater.

Gone quite now have you you gutless mutt? I owuld to if I had made that much of an idiot out of myself.

i thought you had to go back to your drag race business GOM? or perhaps you were on the valiant owners club webiste trying to find out which bits of unimportant trim came with some forgotten special edition 30 years ago?

as a small hatch i would go into bat for the clio any day of the week. it is styled well and makes any VN modified or not look like a pile of s*** and are falling apart as we speak testiment to the s*** house build quality

hey GOM how do you go juggling your four kids, your disabled son, your drag race business, your race driver career, your engineering degree and your work as a mechanic yet still find time to sit on this forum with your 4 gay buddies trying to tell people VNs are safe cars and that people should drive around with fireproof overalls on ?

WOW-I go away for a bit and its on!!
Nos – if you really are a lawyer!!!

Then you are indeed a “bottom feeding paracite”
that makes his way from the anguish of others!

Its easy to be insulting and rude on a blog the same as it is in court room.

So u have either just become a grub or your just a pathetic sniveling sook wannna be in used bm that mummy probably sighned for..

1 thing is very clear-you are very spoilt and dont like not getting your own way.
even on a blog!!!!

To me your somewhere between bug splat and the rag used to clean it….

black dog, i am a lawyer and i have half a brain, thats wat separates me from people like you.

You say i’m a bottom feeder? hell, i have probably given you FREE legal aid at the community law service i work for. Do you sacrifice your pay for a not for profit organisation? Didnt think so black dog so dont judge other people you worthless pile of s***

It’s called having a computer at work. You make lots of assumptions about things I have said when in fact I have said almost none of what you reckon I have. You might also notice that I have never said anything about just what my business is. Ever. Anywhere. I find it interesting that you fail to acknowledge the fact that you started abusing me first. Does that method work in court to? The old “I’ll just pretend that didn’t happen”. For the build quality of the vn’s, there’s still stacks of them on the road that are in top notch condition. I bet you see a few in good nick everyday. How many Clios do you think will still be in that sort of condition in 20 years? Your obviously unaware of what modification to a vehicle means. Adding wheels, stereo & painting is not modification. We are talking about a car that has been re-engineered by the previous owner. If it hadn’t been I wouldn’t be in it. I have first hand experience of a vn being T-boned by a truck. Smack in the drivers door. I’m still here. I walked away with no problems other than a few bumps & bruises. If that some truck had hid a clio it would have been sent barrel rolling down the road & you would likely be very seriously injusred. having been cleaned up by that idiot truckie only a week or two ago I’m very aware of the structural integrity of a vn.
Why don’t you answer any of the questions that are put to you nos? Is it because the answers will reveal you for the dumbass you are?
Funnily enough I was on the Rarespares site to. Looking up parts for a genuine Hemi Pacer. Not that I expect you know just what that is. They are a car for real enthusiasts.
I thought Earthy was annoying but you make him sound like the sweet humm of an Ascari compared to you.

earthy,stop it.

haha here we go again. the reason the VN was re-engineered in the first place is cos they have all the dynamics of a oil tanker. They have singlehandedly killed alot of P platers with thier oversteer prone handling. Perhaps, hypothetically speaking, if cars like the clio were cool among the bogan elite, the high death rate amongst our P platers would have been halved. Now theres a thought.

And no i have overwhemingly seen a butt load of VNs with trim falling off and roof lining coming down and more squeeks and rattles than you can poke a stick at. Atleast the clio will still look like it was actually designed in 20 years.

GOM i feel sorry for you that you are at work right now and can only afford your shitty VN and that the truck didn’t do a proper job of you. chin up f-wit

There must be something wrong with you nos. Do you take medication? Black Dog is probably one of the most respected people that comes on this site. I have NEVER seen him start on anyone. He’s probably the smartest out of the lot of us in the way that he simply doesn’t buy into this sort of crap. You most definitley just got stuck into the wrong person.

I say we all just ignore this monkey’s butt. He’s just an abusive, spoilt parasite just like Black Dog reckons.

wats that GOM? not gonna defend your VN anymore? is that what we like to call “case closed”?

Your ride is a pile of shit. get a real car and get back to me. in fact go to school, learn something, and then get back to me. cos you really are a half wit

Where else do you practice law you turkey? I’ve dealt with lawyers alot & I have never met one yet that didn’t only do legal aid part itme & get paid a truckload more than they are worth by some practice for the rest of thier time. Isn’t it true that the government gives you tax breaks & wage subsidies to? You don’t do it out of the kindness of your heart. You don’t have one. Your a bottom feeding cockroach & if I knew who you were I would gladly squash you like the maggot ridden puss filled bug that you really are.

Yes G.O.M. I’ll ignore the idiot to.

Spandau – It probably is Earthy. This sort of thing would be just like him. It’s not though I don’t think. Earthy is way smarter than this one. Besides Earthy has a cage in the Alpha so it’s not too likely he would be stooping to this things level.

you can work legal aid full time, and yes the tax breaks are magnificent thankyou.

Is that all you have got?? – gee if you were a lawyers toerag youd have more substance.

You are really making a 1st class tool of yourself-but thats all in a days work.

nos I don’t usually make many comments on these forums. I usually just have a read for a bit of a laugh but all you have done is get on here & abuse people ever since if they don’t want to bow down & tell you that your right about everything and are god’s gift to mankind. Forums are for sharing ideas & opinions. Seeing as your so closed off to anyone else’s opinion, what are you doing here? Kids read this stuff to. Why don’t you either just go away or tone it down with the language & insults? There’s just no need for it & it’s not what this forum is about. People, especially kids, don’t want to come on here & find this abusive rubbish that you are posting. Really, grow up. Your acting like a spoilt litle child.

G.O.M. – Don’t stoop to his level. I like alot of the stuff that you post usually & you normally seem to have your head screwed on pretty well, but this one seems to have gotten under your skin. I hope you do just ignore him. Don’t let this infectious disease spoil your rep. If your not going to ignore him, could you tone it down to please?

Maca – Apologies for any offensive things I have written. I will just be ignoring the goober. I love the way that the super intelligent lawyer doesn’t know how to spell ‘what’. I guess not everyone was born with a brain.
Again, apologies if anyone has been offended by anything I have written.

Except for nos. I’m not apologising to him for anything.

Sorry G.O.M., one last thing.

nos – I notice you said you can work full time legal aid, not that you DO work full time legal aid. In my experience legal aid lawyers are all bloody useless anyway & people are far better off defending themselves. Just goes to show your no good at your job as well as no good with cars.

haha i choose to work legal aid after a successful stint in corporate law. im glad you think that XU1 hopefully one day you’ll draw the shittest legal aid lawyer there is and you’ll go down like a sack of shit in the courtroom. GOM lol your apology was pathetic. thugs never apologise. your spineless mate. your only friends are on cyberspace.

and you drive a VN.

lol @ U

Nos is definitely not me! He’s clearly a waste of decent oxygen. Sorry but I’m too busy to join in the fight, but I’m right there in spirit with you GOM. You’re obviously the genuine one here.
Meet a few lawyers in my line of work, Ambulance chasers usually, bit like flys on shit!

haha earth lover you have sold out. hang around GOM long enough and you’ll start to deny global warming exists and wear helmets inside your VN.

TGA- can you tell this clown to knock it off with the fould language? I know I have been guilty of this on occasion today but this one is displaying that he does not care about anyone but himself & doesn’t have any social responsibility at all.

Earthy – Didn’t think it was you. Even you couldn’t be this annoying. Besides, I figured your having too much fun up in the highlands. Lucky bugger.

I guess if you want XU1 to have the worst lawyer around nos, you better defend him then!
Get over yourself dopey. You think your so wonderful. Delusions of granduer, isn’t that a sign of mental illness?
I think your a fool nos. Do the world a favour & take your own advise – just end it all. Put yourself down.

haha GOM wats wrong you swear like a sailor yet you trying to kick someone off your little family here. your a joke GOM. stop sucking up earthys arse you homo.

It’s pretty obvious to me that this nos character doesn’t actually know anything about cars & is only here to look for a fight & cause trouble. Just ignore it & it will go away. Your giving it what it wants.
If nos knew what they were on about I would know. I’m a mechanic in the V8 paddock.

Dave read the posts early on i wrote before it turned into a slanging match. do you agree with what i was saying or not?

PLEASE USE ONLY ONE NAME,PERSONS USING NAMES OTHER THEN THEIR OWN,WILL BE DEALT WITH.

nos you should never have opened your mouth about being a lawyer.i hate monkeys in suites and thats what you are!a monkey in a suite who has no morals, no values,or ethics for that matter.G.O.M.is more of a man than what you’ll ever be.hookers,sex offenders,murderers,are YOUR only friends cause you give them a get out of gaol card you TOOL.AND WHY I HATE LAWYERS SO MUCH WAS I WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AT 9 AND WHEN I TOOK THE ASSHOLE TO COURT WHEN I WAS 22 HIS LAWYER CALLED ME A SLUT AND SAID IT WAS MY FAULT.and because he was such a prick about it
they lost i won.you see the little people dont really give a flying shit how good you think you are.you aint all that.ALL LAWYERS ARE LIKE TELLER MACHINES THEY WITHDRAW ONCE THE LOOSE INTEREST.I HATE YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU.YOU ARE THE LOWEST FORM OF LIFE CAUSE THATS WHAT YOU REPRESENT.case closed!sorry top gear.

OK-I think its time out ay!!
Its not at all funny anymore..

Hers a story – happened on saturday at wedding we went to – now im a ford man – so this hurts me so dont be to cruel.
One of the grooms mates just got himself a new xr6 in blue(nice) decides the bride needs something stylish of course!

anyway there running late “for real” grooms mate(aka the driver) does like all drivers do and opens the door for the bride and maids-Instantley breaks the door handle’off” therebuy completley disabeling the door lock mechanism in the back doors!!

cut a long story short-Bride and no1 maid have to hold the doors shut at 100kmh with maid no 2 holding both of them by each arm in the middle!
20ks to the church.

on arrival – a very excited maid no1 lets go of the door handle before the car stops and at precisely the right time to hit the photographer “ass up” as he is trying to get the arrival shot..

Laugh-we nearly shat!!

Yes time to let things settle abit.

Love it Black Dog. Gotta be honest though, I’ve seen the exact same thing happen with a commodoore. Not for a wedding though. I bet the girls were fuming!

i cant understand cars coming in to this country are still dont have to meet a min crash rating.
i have driven most utes and vans over the years, and i keep going back to the holden or ford.
everytime we up date our fleet we drive everything out there. this time the holden ute was the better out of the 2, mind u we almost went and got vito vans if it was not down to how much they cost or the height

That’s one point I think we can all agree on ute driver. There should be minimum standards set for safety & if a vehicle doesn’t measure up, it doesn’t get through the door. They do it for almost everything else I can think of, kids toys, baby accessories even electrical appliances. It should be the same for cars to. I guess the government makes too much from importing cars to put restrictions on it.

Anyway I’m off to the airport shortly, (I hate flying, they won’t let me drive), the mountain is calling. I will be back next Tuesday. I don’t think anyone in our group is taking a computer, (just booze), so try not to kill each other until I get back. Be safe everyone.

Yeah i thought we had a standard here
(min star rating)-but i think it has alot to do with the fact that we sell more iron ore to china than anyone else..

untill our gutless gov shuts the door on this type of crap ,we will still get it!!

Have a great trip gom – lucky b&^%$#..

GOM your a freakin scatter brain. your first post was how you dont care about crash tests or safety ratings, and then you say that there should be minimum safety standards! your a tripper! you clearly dont know where your next meal is coming from let alone anything about car safety. Hence why are you even contributing on here? isnt there some VN car club website you should be on?

You can’t set minimum safety standards about something as varying as a car. Of course your $250,000 S class benz is going to trump your $13,000 Getz. To make an actual safety standard on something as broad as cars in general is missing the point. i thought you were all for cheap safe cars? how are you gonna get cheap, safe cars if they all have to meet a minimum safety standard? people have a right to choose what car they are going to buy. The ANCAP tests simply help us sift out those cars which are reasonably safe from those which are absolute shockers like the great walls. hopefully people will vote with thier feet.

Of course minimum safety standards are already in place. seatbelts, indicators, child restraint points etc, but you a clearly a few cans short of a six pack suggesting the government sets a minimum safety standard across the board, from your smart cars through to your 12 airbagged lexus’. GOM find some other outlet for your inane comments, your wasting everyones time.

holden chick (lol) there is no way that lawyer would have said your a slut it is against professional standards.. we are not even allowed to speak one on one with the other party let alone abuse the other party. Looks like you were successful anyway, were you happy with the lawyer you had?

This is an example of GOM’s utter stupidity:

“It’s all well and good to want to ban old cars or cars that don’t rate highly in safety but think how that would effect people who can’t afford more than a few grand on a car.”

and then…

“That’s one point I think we can all agree on ute driver. There should be minimum standards set for safety & if a vehicle doesn’t measure up, it doesn’t get through the door.”

is it just me or is this guy a complete scatterbrain???

your an idiot GOM. people like you should not be allowed to breed.

hey guys. having read your comments i can see some holes in your arguments and reasoning.

firstly i have to agree with nos and others, having to put a rollcage in and wear a helmet is completely impractical and would add little to the safety of modern cars which are basically built, as previously mentioned, with rollcages incorporated into the design.

secondly, to say the safety rating on a car doesn’t matter at all is ludicrous in my opinion. if you watched the jumbuck video, you just see the passenger compartment be absoluteley obliterated. I can’t understand how the government could let a car like this be sold at all, let alone anyone buy it! this was a problem with you GOM because you simply stated that all crashes involve a semi at high speeds. i respect your position based on your family etc but i have to disagree with you there.

There should be minimum safety standards however. Nos, you said it would be impossible and impractical to set safety standards on things “as varied as the car”. If these restrictions came into place, manufacturers would be forced to make their cars safer while still retaining their relative prices, and already we see cheaper, smaller car manufacturers such as Hyundai produce cars with a 4 star rating.

oh and also, acceleration is the change in an objects velocity, whether it be positive or negative acceleration. so deceleration is in fact a simplified, inaccurate word to describe motion used by the population.

there’s my 2 cents, hope i don’t offend anyone.

cheers

Nos – im pretty sure your not welcome here anymore without a few appolagies!

and even then i have nothing further to say to you.

what i meant was that to introduce a blanket minimum safety rating would be impractical for a number of reasons

1. you would require vans such as the hiace to meet the same standards as the S-Class. this would be prohibitive in cost and also Toyota would simply not bother trying to make a new model for the australian market. You cannot hold a commercial van to the same limitations as a large executive vehicle with 11 airbargs. (although i note here that the Vito has i think a 5 star crash rating so it is possible, at a price). City cars which are a necessity in places such as Sydney and Melbourne would also be affected. Would you set the minimum standard with these cars? And if so, wouldnt that be too low a standard for other cars such as your Commodores which cost twice as much?

2. the models that did meet the safety rating would come in at a greater price- this is unavoidable in R&D and also in testing to see whether such a car does meet the safety rating. this would effect everything from the Getz to the Commodore.

3. Safety is a constantly changing thing. Would you want your taxes going to a government agency that decides what cars are safe and which cars arent? What is safe or not would constantly have to be updated. Would you waste your time & money crashing brand new lexus’ into barriers when anyone can tell you they are going to meet the safety ratings?

4. Safety ratings are a arbitrary thing.. for instance, what is better? a super strong passsenger cell with 2 airbags on a small front wheel drive car? or a less strong safety cell on a van with 4 airbags and ESP? What about cars with radar cruise control? do these get higher ratings? there are many, many, many variables which affect the safety of cars. And what about Pedestrian safety? Do bull bars get banned because of this? do we value the lives of pedestrians over the (sometimes high) chance that people in roo communities will have to replace the front end of their car?

So in conclusion, a minimum safety rating is good in theory, but for the reasons outlined above, would probably be too impractical to implement.

no trouble, i am not shooting you down or anything its just a topic i have thought long and hard about. I agree with you in theory. Perhaps there could be some sort of bare minimum standard for new cars coming into australia.. But even this would have to be weighed up against the purpose the car/ute/van/bus serves…

I think ANCAP does a good job of alerting us to the shocking cars we should avoid.. hence this very article..

I know all of this started with an article about the import of cheaper chinese made utes, haven’t checked the ANCAP rating or safety features of the Holden Colarado, Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Mitsu Triton, Nissan Navara etc etc etc, but I would put money on them not being that much diferent in terms of survivability in the real world of accidents. There’s not a huge difference in construction methods between them all as far as I can see and perhaps the bigger agenda here is protectionism against cheaper imports. What are the profit margins on say a Holden Colarado, something easily and cheaply made compared to the Commodore which is just a tad more sophisticated. That could hurt the bottom line for Holden and their dealers.

I keep coming back to the same answer re’ safety per se in the city at least. Less driving. Safer, quicker, reliable public transport systems integrated with cycling and walking.

But even this is nowhere near good enough.
Is the whole concept of the ‘city’ as such now completely outdated? With the improvements in communication brought about by the Net, teleconference etc how often do city workers really need to be in the city centre on a daily basis?

Finally, Nos I have to agree with you on a few of your less offensive points, depite your blood sucking legal credentials. A modern Renault Clio is likely to be a safer place to be in an accident with an old 1970’s Aussie ‘Icon’. Sorry can’t stomach agreeing with anything else from the mouth of a lawyer. But what is believed as fact today may in fact be proven folly tomorrow.

Sorry, 3 posts in a row….. I know….
Another 110 people had car crashes in Victoria yesterday. Make it stop, I’m tired of putting flesh back together afterwards.

Usually i like to give as good as i get but i’m not touching this one with a ten foot pole and as Hellen Lovejoy said on the simpsons won’t someone please think of the children

Holden Chick that is trajic what happend to you the only justice in this world you will find is the justice you take the court and lawyers love crim’s so much probly because they are crim’s themselves they give crim’s too many right’s and police so few to much red tape if you ask me anyway i hope you get a chance to move on from it all because thats all you can really do aside from cutting of his penis but i can’t tell you to do that.

http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=Ai0yIwy-RUE

actually a really interesting watch. some food for thought & makes you feel grateful for how far car safety has come.

4 minutes in is really quite staggering, although not for the squeemish or whatever that word is.

earth lover- those utes you mentioned have pretty bad safety ratings although not as bad as the great wall ute or jumbuck. i think most of those utes are based on korean designs. It seems korean is better than chinese when it comes to safety. Pre current shape hilux’s wouldnt have been much better either.

nos all jap utes are made in thailand,out of thai and chinese parts.

and dont forget the subaru brumby was the most dangerous car in australia,only because farmers used to crash them chasing cattle,now the quad bike has that honour.

oh yeah.. thailand is right.. my mistake

got it mixed up with the current holden barina & cruze

Using the old man’s PC before anyone asks.

Notrouble – I’ve got no problem with you expressing your opinion & I take no offense. You haven’t been rude & abusive like some others. Nothing else I write here is directed at you Notrouble.

ANYONE AT ALL – My only problem is that I want someone to tell me exactly what number post have I supposedly said that “all accidents involve semis”? I’m not going to go into the bit where you added the “at high speed”.
Fact – I didn’t.
Fact – I haven’t made half of the claims one donkey says I have & even the ones I have made the same donkey has misquoted & completely misunderstood. For anyone with any doubt about this, please read all my previous posts & you will find what I say about this misquoting & blatant lies being told is totally true.
For anyone interested, please take note that the donkey has not answered one single question posed to them from me. None at all. The donkey was also the one to start abusing me before I even knew they existed. Any doubters can read post 18 & 20 to see the donkey’s abusive nature.

If the donkey can’t quote someone correctly then the donkey shouldn’t tell lies to make themselves seem good. All they do is prove they are stupid & a liar. The donkey should have used a few manners & not come looking for a fight. Which is quite obviously what they are after. Right down to being low enough to insult someone who claims to have been sexually assaulted. That’s just wrong wether those claims are true or not. That’s the donkey showing it’s true colors. The evidence is there for everyone to read. Please take the time to do so.

Donkey – Go on smart boy, quote my prior posts to back up what you say about my posts. If you don’t it simply proves I am right about you being a liar. I’m giving you the ultimate opportunity to bury me here. Should be too good for you to resist if your being truthful about what you say my claims about cars & road safety are.
You know what another name for a donkey is? ASS.

if u look under the worksafe rules u need to have a safe work place, and as a employer we are responcable for this. safe ratings on cars should be on the car just like the fuel use and co2.
all cars coming into the market should have to be tested and have a min standed, maybe 3 stars?
if u buy a air cond, they have to meet a min energy rating so why shouldnt cars be the same.

earth lover i dont no when was the last time u have had to carry 500kg of tools and parts around the city. i no i cant do it, and i cant just “dial-in” to every job i go to. i agree that “SOME” office workers dont need to go in to the city office every day but other have to. tradies most times have to take there car with them, and most try to work around peck times by starting much earlyer or later or working nights nowdays.
most jap utes are no were near as good or a safe as the aussie ute, the main reason companys buy them for is so the guys can carry there familys around on the weekends.

GOM it was implied that all accidents involve semis when you basically said “whats the point of safety ratings, if you get hit by a semi your times up”

That implies that safety ratings are useless because every accident necessarily involves a semi.

ute driver.. i agree with what you said about jap utes. very true.

I am dismayed also by the amount of tradies driving around old hiace and express vans. they are useless in a front on crash.

by old hiace vans i mean the superseded model. by old express vans i actually mean new express vans because they are still for sale!

Yup, I think everyone agrees about this, If you need a ute, go Falcon or Commodore at the moment, as they’re car based you’d have some sort of chance. Trouble is, many tradies just find it more cost effective for their businnesses to run something older like an old Hiace. We really need for the rules around safety for all vehicles to be upgraded including Utes.

Just seen on the news that Queensland wants to ban parents using 4×4’s to take their kids to school and unless you can prove a genuine need for ownership you will be charged extra Rego. Great move Queensland, good on ya.

Ute driver, I have no issue whatsoever with people going about their businnesses carrying their tools. Unless you fancy a donkey and cart I can’t really see a realistic alternative…. But much of the rush hour traffic is made up of single occupied cars. For these people there’s probably an alternative, it’s just that its likely to be more difficult and mean less time in bed.

donkeys could be a very good idea for some drivers they are shocking, and texting while driving would not be a problem anymore.

Go on, any tradies out there willing to give the donkey and cart idea a go for a day?

Oops well off topic again!

Don’t drive cars for transport, they’re all dangerous in everyones hands some of the time. But especially don’t buy crappy utes with rubbish ANCAP ratings. False economy on the long run.

Donkeys also poop everywhere and bite people so if you want rabie get a donkey.

Rabies

Donkeys dont carry rabies!! and they only bite d/heads!

Donkeys are very intelligent!
and exremely well endoughed!!

err-these points considered,maybe there not such a good idea for the average tradie!!

the mountain fires up again for the 1,000 and i just know its gonna be a good one this year.will be posting info on all the different commodores that have come out so we can compare how they have changed over the years and where the parts come from people.and my information is coming from street magazine and the company themselves GM.

NOS what his lawyer said to me was recorded at the court house.sorry to anyone else who didnt like my post but thats the truth and when someone like nos who comes along and treats everyone like we are beneath him that really pisses me off.no need for that.it was his barrister that said it.

hdrippo,post 211,what are you going to do?????i saw an adult movie once with a donkey in it.

why let the cars into the countrie if they arre not safe? which idiot brought them into our country when they will do that on impact and i would’nt even go near one. well what do u expect crap thats all u get know those cars are dangerous and should not be sold

Holdenchickybabe-like i and others said no need for explanations or appols ok,

Q-Whats the difference between a Rat and a Lawyer?
A-There are some things a Rat Wont Do!!

Once more into battle-Bathurst is on and holden is in for a flogging!!!

Back to the topic.
As i mentioned in another post the holden dealer down the rd is now a dealer for great wall!,so today i decided to give him a call and get a demo,just to satisfy my curiosity!!

They came over in a 4×4 dual cab,my initial walk around it looked ok,till you open the door,im not kidding it was light as!!
under the bonnet looks like 10 years ago as does the whole car from the nose back,
The nose-hidious.

On the rd-noisy,tinny,no brakes.
front suspention from a datsun 120y
Back suspention from fred flinstones car.

Basically like a new 10 to 15 yr old ute!!
But, they are cheap,offered me the top of the range for 29k drive away.

I honestly dont think it would last the term of a 48mth lease!!

213. Spendex, I saw that moveie too! Brings tears to your eyes doesn’t it?

yeah, lets keep the Donkey theme going…. Heard on the radio this AM that a Zoo on the Gaza strip has used hair dye and masking tape to turn a couple of Donkeys’ in Zebras because they can’t afford to import them. (they would cost $15000.00US to bring in through one of the underground tunnels.

If car manufacturers can get away with badge engineering then I say why not. If you can’t afford a Zebra, paint a Donkey. Not sure how’d you’d convert a Donkey into much else…. I guess you could try stretching the neck of one and painting it orange to make a Giraffe……

Are we still on topic?

Donkey’s only bite people that don’t love the Earth by the way. Gaias’ teeth or something….

speedo, iv heard a few stories about the arabs and their camels.yes it did little one,did you get one those little horses you liked so much?

Those crazy arab’s aside from doing the world a favour and blowing them self up they sell there life partner in exchange for camels it’s no wonder the camels run so fast when they see a arab coming.

On a pub run so thought I would drop by a friends in town to have a chat & check what is happening here.

nos – Don’t feed me this implied BS. You are trying to put words in my mouth & make out that I said things that I didn’t. This isn’t a court room so don’t try that crap on with me. I mean exactly what I say & not one single thing else. Don’t bother to reply. I’m not going to read your reply if you make one & quite frankly I don’t give a stuff what you have to say.

Earty _ Sorry, I took your award away from you a week or two ago & now I’m going to take away my special name for you to. I have found a much more deserving candidate. nos will now be refered to by me as FIGJAM. Those of you who know what that means will know exactly why he has gotten that name. After all, from the moment this dick has gotten on here all they have done is blow thier own trumpet & put everyone down that doesn’t agree with them. I think the name has most definitley been earned.

yeah G.O.M FIG JAM sounds just like him.perfect name for a fraud.nos is not even a lawyer!spanex ballarina boy i always knew you were into beasts!!lol lol.
thanks speed demon n black dog means alot.i have delt with it but soon as nos said he was a lawyer,that fired me up.about me.i have 2 holden’s.i’m 34 hence my screen name.not over weight am a healthy size 14.and i’ve been told i look like a very young meryl streep,only i have long dark hair.now here comes the posts on commodores

the last post was from me.typing error.
compact holdens were out 30 years ago nov 1978.was seen as too small in an era where buyers demanded big cars with plenty of engine grunt.events of 06 and 07 are saying that full size holdens are now too large and that perhaps compact commodores should have been released in 06 instead of almost 30yrs previously.1979 vb comm is smaller in size than kingswood prem.width of vb comm was1722mm contrasted poorly with hz kingswood at 1887mm.all comm’s had front bucket seats,floor gear change,and there was no bench seat or column shift option.
vb comm introduced to media 12th nov 79.was german opel in apperance,but had been significantly re-engineered to make it stronger and better suited to our conditions.in particular it used holden engines not opel units,and came as comm ,comm sl,comm sle.there was sports pak version with4.2litre v8 in slightly up graded s model.

GOM you said what you said, you said that if you get hit by a semi your time is up and that there is no need for safety ratings because of this. implied means something that is said without expressly saying it. look that word up in a dictionary, if you own one. why are you going back on what you said? stand up for wat you believe in GOM you spineless ignorant bogan.

and holden chick, if he actually said that in court, then no wonder you won your trial. the judge would not have taken kindly to that and it would have just about been the deathknell for his case, regardless of what else happened in the trial.

If you know a car is dangerous why would you buy it that’s my question?

Speed Demon, surely your know that the vast majority of people base their every purchase on price. Cheapest is best to them.
Why would you buy a car with the intention of crashing it?
This whole argument about whether a new car is crash-worthy ignores the fact that Australia’s car population is roughly 13 years old on average, so most people don’t drive new cars anyway.

Yeah i know most people don’t plan on crashing there car but thats what they are accident’s so if there is a car out there that potentially is dangerous in a accident is cheaping out really worth your life?

Sorry, too busy to add anything constructive. Quite a few injuries to tend following the weekends road carnage……

earthy,tell me which scalpel handle takes which blade?

How long did it take you to research that one so you know if he’s full of it Spandex? Has it occured to you yet that even if Earthy is full of it, that he can do the same research & give you the correct answer anyway?

there is the textbook way and the real world way,like in everything,last time eathy failed miserably.

Fair enough. Glad I just carry a normal pocket knife with only one blade then or I might get confused. Lucky I’m not a surgeon.
What did he fail Spandau? You don’t mean about my osteo-chondritis do you? Because technically he was right about that. I do suffer it in my knees to.

Not even going to rise to the bait Spandex, hardly relevant is it. I might be an old woman sitting at home, I might work for some area of government, I might be a journo. I’ve got no reason to make anything up, why would anyone bother?
But if I ever come across someone named Spandau in the hospital system, you’d better just hope i know which blade to use 1st eh!

Oh, 97 car crashes in Vic yesterday. Some car vs object, some car vs car/truck/etc. Lots of minor injuries requiring day off work, physio, nursing care etc etc then there’s the PTSD element, even a very minor element of trauma is likely to cause excitation of the Amygdala.
Follow the link to read about why this is important; http://serendip.brynmawr. edu/exchange/node/1749

Suffice to say emotional responses and large areas of brain responses are affected by an excited Amygdala.

I haven’t even started (and won’t here) on anyone unfortunate enough to have more serious injuries. Why it’s Ok to sell something you’re more likely to have an accident in just because it’s cheap is beyond me. Someone, somewhere will eventually pay for the fast buck made.

Earthy are you a doctor or Paramedic i get confused?

Surgeon

neuro

Mmm, don’t want to give too much info away. Privacy and all. That’s the decent thing about TGA

cool.

Earthy, I just realised, I KNOW YOU!!!!!

Sorry Little Bits, pretty sure you don’t! Though I guess there aren’t many of us in Victoria, so perhaps…..

Oh, ok then, you might be right. THEN AGAIN?!

good nos finally you now know why i feel the way i feel towards lawyers.thats all i have to say bout that.

TGA i totally agree with your posts.this is free site where we can all have our say but nos is out of line.i know that i’ve said some stuff myself but its just in reply to the arrogance of someone like nos.