The Foreman – BBC Top Gear Australia

i actually hate petrol cars,every day they run and sound different,every day there is a different rattle from the engine,they run way too hot,use too much fuel rev too high,ect ect,any one who buys a petrol car now is a retard,

Diesel is brilliant. The massive torque of a diesel motor is something to experience. If you add a turbo, modern diesel’s sound fantastic too. Diesel might cost more usually, but it gets you further per litre.
To solve the dirty hand at fuel pump thing, just keep a gardening glove handy. I buy them in bulk, and throw out the left hand ones. One glove will last at least 3 months before it’s black. And when it’s due to discard, you will appreciate why using a glove to refuel is such a good idea. Filthy!
Before anyone suggests that diesel is then filthy too, I believe petrol is almost the same beast, but unlike diesel it evaporates.

Spamdau, I hate to start an argument with you, O great one, but I thought diesels had more of an issue keeping cool than petrol motors? Anyone know the answer to this one? Can we generalise?

yes little one,it has an issue with heat,but it has been dealt with,i meant,if you lift the bonnet of a petrol car and a diesel on a 45deg day ,even the exhaust manifold will be red hot in the petrol shit box,and also i think diesel is now cheaper in most of nsw and qld now,it is here anyway,,.but little one,the glove idea sux bro,when i read it, i punched a hole in to the gip rock,,,,just go to a 2dollar shop and get a pack of 50 disposable gloves for $2.

Spandex I’m really not sure how to take you. Have you actually lifted the hood of a diesel and petrol car on a 45 degree day to compare with your sensitive hand? Or are you talking out of your arse? Surely the callouses make your interpretation of relative temperature hard to ascertain?
I would have been happier if some engineer or knowledgeable person was to comment.

Not sure about disposable gloves, but seeing as I buy roughly $10 000 of diesel a month, it might be worth listening to you on this one. Have you considered the environment?? My cotton glove replaced once every three months, versus your rubber glove.. Replaced once every time you open your e-mouth.

little one,you can get infared heat detectors from radio control aircraft/helicopter dealers or go cart shops.just point it at what ever and it gives the temp.its a good diagnosis tool,say if you are carting adult products to sydney and you suspect something is wrong on the way,such as diffs ,wheel bearings ect,and this might be too much for your brain but you can record the normal operating temp of a part and take a reading now and then to see if its about to fail,+or- ambient temp.dont say whos got time,u will wait less for repairs.and do you realise you are destroying the planet by throwing away the left glove.

Good grief! a plastic diesel jag!!
You know best thing about jags is there resale! – wait 18mths for a used one and get it for 1/2 the new price.

Spandex, how did you know I transport adult products? Dare I ask, what should I do with the left gloves?

easy,little one,christmas is coming,read no 12 in the porsche panamera blog,corby is ordering up big to celebrate his great mag,bet we wont be invited.leave the left gloves at tga office with the other order,they will find a use for them,..as the night goes on,….

Spandau, you are such a tool, you dont know anything about cars and you’re probably some twelve-year-old know-it-all.

P.S.
1. They solved the diesel engine heat problem, sure, but they also solved the petrol engine heat problems…. Stupid comment.
2. Are you driving a Lada when you talk about Petrol engines rattling differently every day? Did a petrol engine steal your wife, so you have something against them? Diesel engines are just as likely to have a different ‘rattle’ every day as a Petrol engine… although it’s probably just bits and pieces in the car rattling, not the engine.
3. Anyone will tell you a massive disadvantage with many diesel’s is a narrow powerband. Petrol’s ability to Rev high gives it an inherent advantage here. Hence why manufacturers are trying to create diesels with more petrol-like powerbands.

So please leave the scene Spandau Tango. You are a loser.

tom,you rattle like a petrol engine,you hot headed excessive drinking over reving fool,why dont you go and stick a petrol engine in to a semi or a bulldozer.if you cant drive a modern diesel you shouldnt be let out to play,you are a danger to your self and others around you.

Hey Tom, when you say many diesel engines have a narrow power band, are you referring to diesel engines fitted to cars? Or are you including truck engines to qualify your statement?

Because certainly truck engines rev low and have a narrow powerband. My truck has an eight litre, straight-six turbo-diesel, and it only revs to 2800. It idles at 600 rpm, and gentle driving means stirring it through the gears between a range of about 1200 to 2200 rpm.

But I would have though that cars would be fitted with smaller engines, that rev higher. Of course, if you add a modern auto-gearbox, it should charge along within the powerband quite adequately.

I’m now going to check out youtube for any videos of people driving their diesel car aggressively. Guessing you’ve all seen them before. Ferrari’s and the like, with speedo needles racing around the dial like a regular car’s tacho needle.

Ho hum.

I’m told that the Alfa Romeo Diesel (159Di) is quicker and quieter than the petrol model 159. Broad statement I know! So I’m not sure in what aspect its quicker. Maybe someone here owns one or knows and can tell us.

As far as the XF Diesel Jag goes I’m very impressed! I own both a Diesel 4×4 and a petrol car. I like driving the diesel. The torque on the 2.7 TDI is way better than the torque on the 3.6 V6. Less revs more pull and better fuel economy. Sales in these “oil burners” are going up. Good move Jag but I really REALLY hope Ford use these engines in their cars as they helped develop them in the first place.

Question: Is Holden experimenting with the BMW 3lt diesel?

i have a 2L 6speed turbo diesel,its about the same as 4L falcon to drive,bit slower up 60kmph but after that just the same,2000rpm=110kmph.and it revs to 3500rpm,fuel consumption is about 6.8 l p100km.

did no one see the episode of tguk,where clarkson admitted the diesel version of the two cars,the diesel was superior,and he was comparing mercs.and in the le mans 24h dont the audi diesels win every year.

i forgot the most important bit,WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT DIESELS BUILT BEFORE 2007,so tom dum,get your head out off your arse.

Sam-R, that’s an interesting one about Holden! Manufacturers often play with each other’s bits; the new VE was benchmarked off (among other things) a 5-Series. The XF’s new oiler is actually a joint thing with Peugeot, who also supplies diesel tech to Bimmer.

And I reckon Ford Oz *so* missed the bot when they elected not to do a diesel Territory…

hmmm desil jag seems they went in the direction of bmw maybe for the best i have never been a fan of jag tooo ugly they look like a longated turd with a pug face to me but then people tell me ranga chicks are ugly and i think there hot so what would i know

“speed demon” – LOL! But interesting bit of info that the new style Merc was inspired by the old Jag design, you won’t read that in any magazines!

“spandex” – I need subtitles for your posts

“Tim” – I thought the diesel engine in the Jag was also funded by Ford as the XF and the V6’s were. But since the europeans are leading the way in diesel technology I’m glad to see Peugeot involved. I too though am dumbfounded by Fords decision not to drop a diesel into the Territory. Its not as if the new Territory model had too much spent on changes – IT LOOKS THE BLOODY SAME! They could have dropped a diesel into it and people would be saying – “WOW what a change in the new model!”

The block and its technology is Peugeot; the rest is Jag/PAG/Ford.

Spandex? Where does it say anything about before 2007?

When I said narrow powerbands, I was making it a relative term. A diesel would usually rev, say, 2000rpm lower than a petrol engine? Theres a disadvantage there.

Don’t get me wrong, i’ll take a diesel over a petrol ANYDAY. I just wish Spandex would come up with a proper argument.
p.s. Your first reply to me was actually really funny Spandau.

I would hope that the new Falcons get the 3.0 diesel from the Jag, it would make sense, its already paired to the ZF gearbox and all. Maybe a $3000 premium on top of requiring the 6-speed auto and it’s all good!

As far as Ford and Holden are concerned, im glad to see the informed public are angry at them for not using Diesels. A friend of mine bought a Passat, first non-Australian car she ever owned, because she was so infuriated at the idiotic Holden dealership. The Man told her there was no demand for a diesel Commodore, so they hadn’t considered it.
But when we all stop buying Falcodores, they’re going to have a shock.

tom ,thats about when the transmissions actually matched the engines,most diesels before that were let down by very bad gear ratios and lack of gears,and some still do.the average numb skull in the suburbs,only knows 2 transmissions,manual and auto,.but now the manufactures are forced to build better ,engine gearbox bagages.

Your seriously telling me you think the only reason diesel engines were disadvantaged was because every engineer in the world was too stupid to stick it on the right gearbox?

The gearbox does not affect the powerband, it can make the most of the available powerband, but it doesn’t actually change it.

And its not the average numbskull who doesnt know what a Robotised Double clutch manual gearbox is, its probably 90% of the population who isn’t interested in cars.

Not to mention the types of gearboxes has nothing to do with the ratio’s and lack of gears on older torque converter automatic and synchromesh (or non-synchro) manuals….

tom ,you idiot, thats what im saying,your second bit,making most of power band,thats it,stop arguing with me bro,we are talking the same talk.

I googled robotised double clutch manual gearbox and just came up with some weird japanese animated porn site.

My truck had an auto option available. Except it’s not really an auto, but a manual gearbox with an electronic shifting mechanism. Is this the style of ‘new auto’ which you speak Spandex.

Not sure about this 2007 timeline, but certainly in the past few years diesel engines have become so much more refined. With euro 4 and euro 5 emissions standards, diesel motors are now so much smoother, cleaner and fuel-efficient. Add an electronic shift to a solid-manual gearbox and you’ve got a vast improvement on old-skool diesels.

Bahaha Nice Little Bits, heres an example, Volkswagen’s DSG Gearbox is a Double-clutch robotised manual.
The DSG is kinda like two manual gearboxes together with two clutches, when one disengages the other one is already engaged. Very very quick shifts. Its not an automatic, its a manual that changes gears on its own, hence ‘robotised’. So in normal speak, its an automatic because its a gearbox that changes on its own. Mechanically though, its more a manual.

The truck gearbox your talking about is a Robotised Manual. Older versions (aka Alfa Romeo’s and Citroens for example) were harsh and abrupt from take-off and clutch timing wasn’t always to people’s liking. The dual clutch mechanism and improvements have made them much more useable and advantageous, such as in the DSG (VW) and TC-SST (Mitsubishi Evo X, Ralliart).

But yeh, Spandex, we were making different points. Your taking the narrow powerband in stride and saying all it needs is a gearbox to make use of it. I was saying regardless of the gearbox, its still disadvantaged to a petrol engine. You have a good point there, with a good gearbox (aka DSG), the car can remain in its powerband constantly.

I think the future of all cars are (dual clutch?) robotised manuals, they’re faster and more fuel efficient than both auto and even manuals. Whether you like automatic or manual cars, you can use the same gearbox.
I still prefer to control my clutch though…

Now what I want to see is a diesel LPG hybrid engine!!! Either that or Mercedes should really get its Diesotto technology going, where petrol engines can use the diesel combustion cycle. Add that to LPG or hybrid and you have efficient petrol engines!!!

Tom, even though the diesel-hybrid engine is a good concept I think it will be too hard to make it work in real life. The changes that a fuel station needs to make by moving the diesel bowser next to the LPG gas bowser would be too expensive and who would fill up with diesel then wait in line for the ONE gas bowser? Too hard!

My friend has a diesel truck with LPG conversion so it uses both fuels.
It made a big difference to his fuel economy but its a pain to fill up.

a good example of a diesel being superior over petrol power is the paris/dakar race cars,such as the mitsubishi pajero,now lancer, and the vw toureg.these things are all diesels now with sequential gear boxes.but a 6 or 7 speed sequential box for the average joe in the suburbs is just too much for him to cope with.but without these sequential gear boxes these race cars would be very ordinary,but are now better and faster than the petrol versions,only because this type gear box allowes all the torque to be put to use.the dsg and alfas and fiats version is probably ok for the mrs but i dont think is a good exsample of a high performance transmission.

Hey Tom, I just checked the specs on my truck. It claims to have a ‘fully automated hydraulically controlled wet clutch and fluid coupling with lock up’. Is this a double clutch unit then? It’s mounted to a manual gearbox with electronic shift.

Anyone who says that it’s better to buy a three to five year old car over a brand new one, really should consider the complexity of modern cars before buying one that three years old.

little one, dont you just plug it to a computer,and it will tell you what the problem is,and the part gets changed,easy.i had a bedford van with a 202 in it,no body could trace the missfire in it,that situation wouldnt happen in a modern car.

forget hybrids ,waste of time experiment,diesels runing on bio fuels is it,and maybe an electric with a generator that comes on when needed ,with the roof and boot lids made of solar panels,laugh you may,but you will see……….

Spandex, if only it was that easy. I was at the truck place some weeks ago for a service. It’s a flash dealership and repair centre and the drivers lounge has good amenities, and also the ability to watch out over the vast mechanic bays to see what’s going on with our trucks.

Inevitably us truck drivers get chatting to one another. There was a guy there getting his truck looked at for the second time in three weeks. Because he was having problems with the electric window winder on the passenger side door. We watched three mechanics completely dismantle the driver’s side door, over a space of two hours. Then two of the mechanics just kind of leant on the side of the truck for another hour. Hilarious. I don’t think they ever did look at the passenger door, but I left at that stage.

So Spandau.
When we run out of crude oil…
What do you suggest we run our cars on?
And dont say Bio-diesel, its ENTIRELY inefficient. The whole freakin planet would be a big field just to keep demand for oil near where it is now.

And so Spandau, is that why Nissan just used a Double clutch robotised manual transaxle on its new GT-R, you know, the one the Mrs drives. The one thats faster than the Ferrari’s, Lamborghini’s and Porsche’s.
Darling, may I borrow your car please?

I had a mechanic the other day suggest it would take three hours to do a job that would take me an hour. I have no qualification, have pulled apart one engine in my lifespan, and can make no sense of the manuals. Yet this guy thinks it would take three hours….

Sam-R, fuel stations are going to have to change a lot more when electric quick-charge stations come into effect and kill their business slowly. Besides, LPG doesnt work on the diesel combustion cycle, its too hot.

tom ,my stupid friend,if you go to any ag show[farm stuff]you will find people who fit lpg injection systems for diesels,more power and better economy.as for the GTR clutch,because the sequential is too dangerous in normal driving in the hands of the suburban numbskull,on the race track that will be throw out and replaced with a straight cut sequential box like a hollinger.You can make oil out of just about any plant,so thats what will happen,but the only difference will be that we will be paying a lot more for it,so we may be driving a 500cc diesel with a ten speed gearbox,with a 1 litre per 100km fuel economy soon.i don think nothing will ever happen with hydrogen cars. little one,how often do you change the engine oil in your semi and what is your fuel economy fully loaded.

Alright then, why doesn’t anyone fit LPG to their diesel cars smart-arse. As far as I know, it isn’t done, but feel free to correct me properly.
Oh, and LPG produces LESS power, I might add.

Whats so DANGEROUS about a sequential gearbox? Will the gears eat me? Theres a thousand cars on the road with a sequential gearbox. The proper race-spec ones though, arent used because of how expensive they are.

Yes we’ll be paying tonnes more, but no one wants to pay that much more. Technology will develop into a less expensive ALTERNATIVE because thats what we will demand. Theres already a thousand hydrogen engines out there, its the big companies that buy them out because they dont want to have to spend the money on developing something the market doesn’t need know exists.

spandex im not driving a semi, just a large rigid. If ya know what I mean, mawahhahahaha. (Reminds me, I meant to ask, whatever happened to Annemarie??).

The 2009 model truck I do drive, goes 15,000km per oil change. Get’s roughly four kilometres per litre of diesel, whether it’s empty or loaded up to the axle limits makes little difference.
The average semi goes 2.0 to 2.2 km per litre of diesel. Average b-double semi gets 1.8 to 2.0 km per litre of diesel.

I’m not sure the big fleets are still fiddling with that gas injection with diesel motors somebody mentioned either. Haven’t heard anything about it for six months, although I know some big firms were trying it out. Perhaps it’s a bit of a waste of money, or the added complexity proved too much of a hassle.

great,good info little rigid,i think annie had a sex change,she is now called cupid valentine,where are you cupid?????

when hydrogen becomes a renewable and more accessable resorce can we have a converter like a gas converter attached to our cars so we don’t have to sell them i don’t see why that can’t be

Ah Spandau, still participating vigorously with yr little friends on this forum I see……. precious!! Ya’ know guys, you have all raised some really interesting points on this one….. and some not so interesting ones……!!

Still, it’s good to see you guys still have adequate spare time to squabble mindlessly, (for the most part anyway) about these things; I guess there is a sense of mateship, frindship, or whatever in it; so good for you!

If you remember Spandau, I have an ‘06 Pug 407 HDI too, (since May ‘08).

It’s just clicked over 40,000Km on the clock and it’s been an absolute dream!!! I gotta say, 0-60kmh can be a little slow, what with the lag ‘n’ all, but I just build up the revs with my foot on the brake if I wanna take off real quick!!!! hehehehehe….. I’ll probably go through brake pads quicker, but it’s fun blowing off wogs in Falcodores at the lights!!!!!

the heat issue ISNT diesel engine Vs petrol engine

the heat issue is TURBO engine Vs non turbo (in most cases eg focus TD / Focus cl petrol)

Turbos always have more heat swanning around under the bonnet. Whether theyre petrol or diesel.
fact of life.
Solution? Bigger radiator, higher pressure coolant pump, more cooling in other words. Same as any other vehicle with a heat issue